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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1804
Hemel Hempstead

 What is the biblical position on a soldier who is about to go into Afghanistan

Matthew 19:18 KJV
He saith unto him, Which ? Jesus said , Thou shalt do no murder , Thou shalt not commit adultery , Thou shalt not steal , Thou shalt not bear false witness ,

Matt 26
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

I met a man about to go to war in Afghanistan my struggle with this issue is with Atheist as they say that the acts say in exodus or other passages are say genocide.

I was trying to think of a biblical case for say a passivist side versus a person who wants to go to war. Murder is wrong in all cases.
Then how does these passages apply to nations I was trying to find any new passages relating to the fact of war between nations in the new testament as there are none.

The reason I found it hard is because essentially if I talk about Biblical holy war I am essentially stepping on old covenant promises. As Christians we do not forcibly convert anyone God does.

What I was thinking if I as a christian and it was my job to shot people to protect the christian values in this country what ground from the bible have I got to justify my actions.

Also as we are Heavenly citizens say we were in the situation of somewhere like Syria and you were a newly converted christian in the army and your government told you to shot unarmed citizens. Gods law is higher as this would be wrong to do.

My problem is that with this way of thinking it gets on to the idea of Holy Christian War.

Is there any people in the army who have fought in Afghanistan, what biblical grounds is there in scripture for taking up arms and not.

What do I tell someone who is a christian just about to get shot by Afghanistany Guard,

There was a story of a friend that a christian got shot and picked up a new testament and came to know Jesus.
Say if this man killed people whilst in Afghanistan would this be classed as murder. I have read the bible and do not have any answers to this question.


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Dominic Shiells

 2011/8/6 19:43Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: What is the biblical position on a soldier who is about to go into Afghanistan

Hi Deltadom,


"...my struggle with this issue is with Atheist as they say that the acts say in exodus or other passages are say genocide."


The athiest doesn't really have any footing to stand on for an objection:

on the one hand he's disputing about something that he says he doesn't believe happened to begin with, that is, that God led the people into the land and told them to drive them out. His objection then becomes hypothetical and pointless because the God that can split the red sea and drown an army can't be argued against afterwards.


The Bible indicates in several places that God was determined to drive the people living in those lands out because of the sins they were commiting: having sex with animals and offering their children on fires, for instance.

God actually says in at least one place, that the land was vomitting them out.





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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2011/8/6 19:58Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1804
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

My argument is not really with this atheist more that the case for Murder is not say used on a National Level in Scripture, just on a personal level.
My problem is more a new testament one.
My arguments normally for argueing those passages in scripture are
1. God created us so he has the right to destroy us, such as a person with a pencil has a right to rub out a mark
2. We are destroying places like Libya and trying to destroy the evil in those nations god has a higher right to do these acts as he is all morally good and we are trying to destroy wicked people so that they will not destroy us, As he is omniscient , all powerful, loving God who knows far better than we do and we do not know the minor details ( we do have some archaeological evidence to prove that they were evil)

My argument is what ground biblically do we enter war. I was using the anology that if I shot someone say in wartime as a christian does that class as murder if I am a christian on the battlefield or I am under a wicked regime and I was told to shot someone in the army.

Is murder purely homicide or does it account for war times as well. I have been reading 2 commentary on Deuteronomy recently. There are different words for homicide compared to holy war in Hebrew.


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Dominic Shiells

 2011/8/6 20:42Profile
Renoncer
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Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re: What is the biblical position on a soldier who is about to go into Afghanistan

It boils down to the sanctity of life. God demands an account for the lives that are taken.(1)

If you were an Israelite in the Old Covenant, it would make sense to annihilate those who are being judged by God as his enemies.(2) In a sense, God's commandment to destroy those idolatrous people was a preview to the final judgement, when God will utterly destroy the wicked. Was it just for God to destroy the wicked back in the days of Joshua? Of course, in the same way that it will be just for God to destroy his enemies on the day of judgement.

Now, if you are a Christian under the New Covenant, things are different because of the dispensation of God's grace. In fact, God has now opened the door of repentance and faith unto salvation through Jesus Christ, for all peoples and nations of the earth.(3) Jesus came into the world not to condemn the world, but to save the world.(4) He has given us a commission to go and preach this Good News to the entire world until He comes back.(5) When He comes back, then it will be judgment time. Until then, we are not called to take life, but to lay down our own lives for the sake of others, including our enemies.(6)

Instead of being concerned with the interests of the world, we should be concerned with the interests of God. What is more important, making sure that Americans keep their freedom to dress scandalously on the beach and drink themselves to oblivion, or giving up your freedom for the sake of Christ and saving lives through the sacrificial preaching of the Gospel?

We must remember that we do not fight as the world does. On the contrary, our weapons are spiritual,(7) because our enemy is also spiritual.(8) Now, I recognize that God uses the governing authorities even to restrain the evils of the world,(9) but we as Christians live by different standards.

I understand that many will disagree with me. I am not looking for man's approval. However, I will leave you with this counsel: Don't fight against your conscience. Even if you think that going to war in Afghanistan is justified, please do not fight against your conscience if it bears witness against you. The result will be utterly destructive. Time and time again, people are convicted of their sin; they KNOW they have done wrong and murdered men against God's will and their conscience keeps bothering them. It would be unwise to try to persuade them to supress these feelings with drugs and try to convince them that they "have done their duty". Instead, they should acknowledge their sins, confess them, and repent. Only then, can there be forgiveness, cleansing, and healing.(10)


1. Genesis 9:5
2. Deuteronomy 9:3-4
3. 2 Corinthians 6:2
4. John 3:17
5. Matthew 24:14, Acts 10:42, Matthew 28:19
6. Matthew 5:44-48, Matthew 10:39, Matthew 16:25, Romans 12:20-21, Acts 20:22-26
7. 2 Corinthians 10:3-4
8. Ephesians 6:12
9. Romans 13:1-4
10. James 5:16, 2 Corinthians 7:9-10, 1 John 1:8-10

 2011/8/6 20:59Profile









 Re:

deltadom,

Jesus taught non-resistance and lived it. He did not teach pacifism. Pacifism is actually rebellion against the government as it promotes protests and other "peaceful" demonstrations.

If you read the Sermon on the Mount and other parables by Jesus you will see that he taught non-resistance. You will also see by reading about His life that He lived non-resistance.

All you have to do is follow the Lamb. Shut your ears to man. Is your Shepherd leading you beside still waters or leading you into earthly wars?

Follow your Shepherd! Pacifists believe in non-violent RESISTANCE. Jesus did not resist and taught His disciples the same thing.

I am ex-military, but I know the Gospel and it is a Gospel of non-resistance not resistance or aggression or pacifism.

Julius

 2011/8/6 23:32





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