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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I have no relationship to the law. It does not apply to me.

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kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Seventh Day Adventist do not believe that keeping the law will get you to heaven. Not sure where people get that from. We simply believe that Jesus did not come to abolish the 10 commandments. How could He when he infact gave them to us. We believe that if we abide in Jesus we will automatically obey the 10 commandments. It's not like i go around with a list of commandments making sure to keep all of it. Now that Christ abides in me I keep the commandments "freely". It is not a burden to me cause I am grateful of the sacrifice of Christ and I am willing to obey His commandments. It is only through Christ that we are saved and that is what Paul was pointing out to the church of Galatia..Through Christ and Christ alone are we saved! But you can't tell me you have Christ in your heart yet you live contrary to His law continuously. If there is no law what does Revelation 14:12 mean then...
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

By the way, most of the feedbacks are awesome. I believe all those things already but I am really convinced that the 10 commandments were not only for a certain people but everyone that God created.

 2011/8/18 20:06Profile
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

Dear twayneb
That statement referring to the law: "you cannot also say that it is to be disregarded or trashed! " confused me too. That was why I asked for more explanation. I did not think anyone was implying that we should disregard or trash the law. I really like your explanation about how we relate to the law as Christians. Yes, grace alone! and yes, that grace works...as the Spirit works in us, He demostrates His character in us. The character of Christ fulfills the law.

 2011/8/19 0:28Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Seventh Day Adventist do not believe that keeping the law will get you to heaven. Not sure where people get that from. We simply believe that Jesus did not come to abolish the 10 commandments. How could He when he infact gave them to us.



I know that SDA does not believe that keeping the law is the way to salvation. They believe in salvation by grace alone. It is the subsequent view of the law that I question. I recall listening to and watching several prominent SDA preachers as they taught on the keeping of the sabbath. It was strongly implied if not explicitly stated that the mark of the beast was worship on a day other than the sabbath. It was also stated that one who did not keep the sabbath could not be born again. Now I am not sure if I misunderstood, which is entirely possible. I also know that among the SDA there can be variant points of view in regards to these things so not every person views the law in exactly the same way.

I do have some questions that come to mind. As far as you understand it, if we must keep the letter of the law as a born again believer, even though we do it "freely" and as a "grateful sacrifice" what happens if we fail to keep a portion of that law? How do you determine which part of the law you should and should not keep? Could it not be debated endlessly what is ceremonial and what is moral? Does this distinction even exist in scripture or is it simply man's categorization? What happens if I do not worship on Saturday but instead on Tuesday night?

You get my line of questioning I hope. Paul tells us in Galatians to stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has set us free and to be not entangled again in the yoke of bondage. This yoke of bondage Paul talks about is the law. He goes on to talk of circumcision. This circumcision was not simply "ceremonial" but went to the heart of the issue of consecration and separation that God's people were to walk in. Yet Paul says that if you are circumcised then Christ profits you nothing, that you have put yourself back under the old covenant. In fact he says you are fallen from grace. (Note: He is not saying that the medical procedure is the problem, but the motivation for being circumcised. He is saying that circumcision in order to please God or to be right in His sight is the problem.)

Please don't take me wrong. I am not being contentious. I am just trying to figure out how you see this thing.

Blessings kwamenat.


_________________
Travis

 2011/8/19 8:36Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Twayneb,

I understand what you are saying my good brother. I must admit, some pastors are not doing the church any justice when it comes to the way of Salvation. However, one thing I like about the Seventh-day Adventist Church is that they uphold the word of God. I went through all the doctrines one by one to make sure they are sound before teaching or sharing it. I am continuously studying to find truth and error amidst the countless doctrines in the Christian circle.

For example, you asked about the Mark of the Beast. It will take a study of Revelation and Daniel to understand who the beast power is. Perhaps we can do that on a new thread. But for now check out these blasphemous claims that the Catholic Church has in their library collection in connection with the Beast Power and its mark. If you doubt these statement then do your research to validate these references. It is in their own books. If you can't click on this site, copy and paste it. YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!

http://jlfoundation.net/papacy.html

You asked about circumcision. It was not part of the 10 commandments.

Also, You did not answer my question about Revelation 14:12 which states "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

What does the commandments of God mean in this text?

Here is Matthew Henry's Commentary about the text:

14:6-13 The progress of the Reformation appears to be here set forth. The four proclamations are plain in their meaning; that all Christians may be encouraged, in the time of trial, to be faithful to their Lord. The gospel is the great means whereby men are brought to fear God, and to give glory to him. The preaching of the everlasting gospel shakes the foundations of antichrist in the world, and hastens its downfal. If any persist in being subject to the beast, and in promoting his cause, they must expect to be for ever miserable in soul and body. The believer is to venture or suffer any thing in obeying the commandments of God, and professing the faith of Jesus. May God bestow this patience upon us. Observe the description of those that are and shall be blessed: such as die in the Lord; die in the cause of Christ, in a state of union with Christ; such as are found in Christ when death comes. They rest from all sin, temptation, sorrow, and persecution; for there the wicked cease from troubling, there the weary are at rest. Their works follow them: do not go before as their title, or purchase, but follow them as proofs of their having lived and died in the Lord: the remembrance of them will be pleasant, and the reward far above all their services and sufferings. This is made sure by the testimony of the Spirit, witnessing with their spirits, and the written word.(Matthew Henry's Commentary on Rev 14: 6-13)

He spends time emphasizing those who will triump trials and tribulations because of their union with God. But he also states this.."The believer is to venture or suffer any thing in obeying the commandments of God, and professing the faith of Jesus". What do you think about this statement?

I am not taking you wrong. I know you are not been contentious. I am actually amazed by how many people love studying and teaching the Word on this Site (honestly & sadly, probably more than 50% at my church are into the Word like you guys) I hope you understand where I am coming from.

To set the record straight, I do not think anyone on this site is going to hell because they do not keep the 7th day Sabbath. For who am I to make such a claim! For we will all be held accountable to the light given to us through our diligent study in the Word. As we continue to study and pray consistently, the Lord will reveal to us truth and error. We may not be on the same page in understanding right now or probably never but if we believe in Christ we shall not perish according to His own words! Oh the joy to have the assurance of Salvation. Shalom!

Brother in Christ,
Kwamenat

 2011/8/19 23:29Profile
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

Why do we have the sabbath on Sunday? I am not a legalist, but I do not want to dishonor God by picking a different day, I had never heard this before.

 2011/8/20 0:49Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas

 Re:

Looking at History the starting church was mainly Jewish and so they honored the Sabbath on Saturday but also wanted to Honor the day the Lord Jesus was resurrected which they called the Lord's Day which is Sunday or the first day of the week.

It eventually was seen as a Jewish custom through the teaching of Paul that Christ Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath and thus IS our Sabbath, we are now free to celebrate the Lord's Day and a Sabbath Day at anytime.

So when people get together Sunday they aren't practicing a Sabbath day or day of rest because that would be on Saturday but celebrating the Lord's day or the Resurrection of Jesus Christ which is Sunday.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/20 1:11Profile
Leeza
Member



Joined: 2011/8/13
Posts: 122


 Re:

Thanks, mguldner

 2011/8/20 1:16Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by kwamenat on 2011/8/17 14:36:12

"PS: Someone stated that the article i posted in my last post was by a Seventh-day Adventist. I simply typed the subject in google and that article came up. That's the other problem with certain folks on this site- they answer questions with pre-conceived thoughts! Someone else can post the same thing i posted but the answer will be structured with my denomination in mind. Oh well!"

To clarify for the record, I never wrote that the article WAS posted by a 7th day Adventist.

Here is what I actually wrote:

"Perhaps Richard Anthony is a 7th Day Adventist, for they insist all other Christians are sinners for worshiping God on Sundays rather than from Sundown on Friday through Sundown on Saturday, as prescribed in the Mosaic Covenant between God's people of the Exodus and God."

Perhaps the word 'Perhaps' means something. :)

Since you raised this issue, I decided to check on Richard Anthony.

Richard Anthony states: "Religious denominations actually go contrary to scripture, because they divide Christ."

"The reason for denominations is because those in the assembly (church) did not "speak the same thing", and that caused "divisions among them", and were no longer "joined together." Therefore, they formed different ‘Churches’ because of all the ‘contentions among them’. Just like how, in the above verses, those in the first century divided themselves and said they were of the assembly of "Chloe, Paul, Apollos, Cephas, etc.", denominations today divide themselves and say they are of the Church of the "Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox, Quakers, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Calvinism, Arminianism, etc."

Apparently then, Richard Anthony is not a Seventh Day Adventists.

And as for all his arguments against all Christian Denominations, The denomination Richard Anthony belongs to is the CHRIST ASSEMBLY. But they KNOW they are not a denomination, but rather, the one true Christian Church who worship on Saturdays. All others are just divided denominations.

Go Figure?




_________________
Arthur Biele

 2011/8/20 13:27Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

kwamenat: Ahh! I see what you are saying I think. You imply that the SDA believe that we must keep the ten original commandments of the law but are not bound by any other?

The problem that I see with that is that the Bible does not make any distinction between the original ten and the remaining 600+. The only NT mention of the original ten is a passage which calls the original ten a ministration of death, a dead letter, and clearly states that they have been done away with.

The commandments of God are not those that are written in stone or on paper. These are external and were intended to show us our depravity, to condemn us. God's true commandments are so far above these and can only be kept through the Holy Spirit living out through us. The first is enforced from the outside on unregenerate flesh. The second eminates from the inside from a born again Spirit.


_________________
Travis

 2011/8/20 19:02Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

The 10 commandments are all in the Law of Moses, including a chemical formula for guilt of Adultry. The Sermon on the mount and what Jesus said about divorce are the crowning glory of the Law. "if you even look upon a woman with lust", you have commited adultry. All this is taken away in Christ, we now serve our Savior out of Love unto life, not the Law unto death, that is all the Law, not just those we can pick and choose to keep. Not one jot or tittle, or you have broken the whole law.

Matthew 5:18-20 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How does my righteousness exceed the scribes and Pharisees?

Colossians 1:9-14 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Not by the Law but by the power of God, delivered from darkness.

The Law is darkness in which we die. It proves how sinful we really are. We are made perfect in Christ, not by what we do, but by what Jesus did on the Cross which God intended from before the foundation of the world. In Christ. Eph 1:4

How are we made righteous and perfect before God our Father?

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Who made us this way in Christ?

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of (((Him))) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (((God))) is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

No law here, but Pure Grace. Now we are the fulfillment of the law not keepers of the Law. Christ is the only one that kept the Law and He is now birthed in us He is our Love, Life, and Law keeper by the power of the Holy Spirit and the forgiveness through the advocate if we mess up. Run to confession and we are cleansed from all unrighteousness by the Power of God and we will overcome.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This is our only law;

Romans 8:2-4 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

WE do have the Holy Spirit and we will walk in Him and in Christ Gods only begotten Son who has made us sons, by the power of God not the Law.

In Christ our only Glory: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/8/20 20:19Profile





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