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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I have no relationship to the law. It does not apply to me.

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JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

Don't forget, the OT law was given by God. The Ten commandments are the perfect law of God, or He wouldn't have given them. To say it doesn't apply to your life is dangerous ground. All throughout the OT it says, "Thus saith the LORD." However, the law does not save. Only Christ does. It does say in Ezek. and Hebrews that He will write His law upon our hearts so that we can please Him. He gives enabling grace. As a child of God, I want to please my Father. This is by faith. There is a "want to" to obey Him.


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James

 2011/8/5 16:17Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

Hello Martyr.
You do not need to be bright to understand spiritual things, but you do need to be willing. He that cares to do the will of God will understand the doctrine.

You must ask what did "The body of Christ" do. The body of Christ destroyed the body of sin, the old man, the flesh that we had.

If the flesh is dead, the law in no longer needed. The law can not save because it can not change the nature of man, it can only restrain his outward behavior. But Christ did something different, He restored God's image to man again. Now we do not need the law to restrain us because now we ourselves desire to do the will of God.

That does not mean that the law of God is abolished.
It only means that man is not at enmity with it any more.

When we read the writings of Paul we have to understand the points he is addressing.

There was a very critical issue when the Getiles were grafted in the faith. This issue was raised by Jewish believers that Gentiles must go through a time of outward ritual sanctification before they are allowed to be grafted in the faith which is Jewish in origin since the Messiah is Jewish and the Father is the God of Israel.

Paul's opposition to the law or the outward ritual sanctification or purification is that Christ had cleansed the heart of the Gentiles by faith and abolished the wall of separation between the Jew and Gentile.

To illustrate Pauls point. Lets say you have a dirty cup on the inside and out.
The Jewish view was to wipe the cup on the outside first,( outward purification), then stick it in the dishwasher ( complete cleansing in Christ by faith).
Paul saw the silliness of such practice. If you are going to stick it in the dish washer, why do you need to wipe the outside, he argued.

However, that does not mean the cup is exempt from sanitation rules ( the law ), in order to be fit for use.If the cup is found to be spotted, it can not be used.
the question is : Who does the sanitizing.

I hope I didn't further confuse you.


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Fifi

 2011/8/5 17:08Profile
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Isn't the flesh dead, only as we reckon it dead through faith?

It is very much alive, yet through faith we reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. And we must walk in this reckoning each day.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/8/5 17:12Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

Hello Sarah,
There is an initial blow the flesh receives at the point of regeneration, and through faith it need to remain nailed to the cross of Jesus as we carry our cross daily.

When the Bible says "dead" it deos not mean dead not to ever rise again. Otherwise, there would be no test to pass or choices to make. We must choose Christ and His life in us that alone is able to keep the flesh dead.That is a choice we make moment by moment but by the grace of God it can be done.


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Fifi

 2011/8/5 17:31Profile









 Re Untobababes

I Corithians 9:20-21
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jew. To those under the law I became like one under the law (THOUGH I MYSELF AM NOT UNDER THE LAW), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (THOUGH I AM NOT FREE FROM GOD'S LAW BUT AM UNDER CHRIST LAW), so as to win those not having the law.

My sister a transition in Paul's law relationship has taken place. When Paul was a Jew he was bound by the law of Moses. When he became a Christian he was bound by the law of Christ. I believe the law of Christ is encapsulated in the two commandments of love of God and love of neighbor. The Christian is bound by that sane law. Love of God and love of neighbor is what the Holy Spirit writes on our hearts, not the law of Moses. Perhaps we are articulating the same thing. I am simply saying we are bound by the Covenant of Christ and not that of Moses. Ok. So I am not the brightest bulb here.

Posted by Blaine Scogin

 2011/8/5 18:53
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: I have no relationship to the law. It does not apply to me.

Excellant post, Tuc.

 2011/8/5 20:20Profile
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Yes, that is how I understand it Untobabes.

When we died in Christ, our Body did not die. It was the same body the very next day. But the Bible talks about our flesh which is not the same as our physical body, but our urges and desires. Lusts of the boy, lusts of the flesh, pride of life. Yes, we need to reckon that dead and keep it nailed to the cross.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/8/5 20:26Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by Oracio on 2011/8/4 11:10:56

"I think it is important for us to understand the distinction between the civil, ceremonial and moral Law in the OT. If we do not make that distinction we can fall into a form of "semi-antinomianism" as Christians.

The Bible is crystal clear that as Christians we have absolutely no relation to the civil and ceremonial aspects of the OT Law. But the moral Law still applies for us to keep in mind and abide by through the Spirit's power. Areadymind pointed out a good example of this principle from Eph 6(Other examples are in Rom.13:8-10 and James 2:11-12))."

Is this so Oracio?

Here are a few moral Laws of the Mosaic Covenant that you feel obligated under the New Covenant to enforce!

Dt 22:20-24

20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, [when married] 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

22 " If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel."

[The punishment is again for them to be stoned to death. and then hung on a Tree for all to see.]

23 " If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you. NASU

So the good Christian you are, Oracio, you have the stones ready when the time comes to fulfill these commandments of the Mosaic Covenant.

What did you think? That all there was to the moral laws of the Mosaic Covenant is for you to nod your head agreeing that these deeds are wrong. There is a duty you have to ascribe to the punishments of Mosaic Laws, and to carry them out and be actively in support of these judgments, even if it involves your own daughter or son.

I do not know many Christians who are as committed to these moral laws of the Mosaic Covenant as you claim to be.

I'm not like you. I believe in the NT Law of Liberty that states: Mercy triumphs over judgement, and by what measure you measure, so shall it be measured to you.

I also believe in the Royal Law of Love: to love God with all our heart, mind, and strength, and my neighbor as myself. And Jesus explained who a neighbor really is, and I want to be that neighbor.

The third Law of the NT involves the fact that I am a spirit and through Jesus I also have indwelling Holy Spirit:

Ro 8:1-8
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. NASU

And I am according to the Holy Spirit that dwells in me whom transform my very nature that I may eventually naturally do the things that please God. For God has begun a good work in me and He will see it through to completion, just as Paul explained it to the Philippians:

"Php 1:6-7
He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. NASU

Thus I did not earn my salvation, it is truly a love gift from God to me, and I am confident that He will transform my nature that I may do the good that God created us to do.

Oracio, my brother in Christ, what God is doing in me is being done for all Christians. I just can not picture you throwing stones at violators of the moral laws, stoning which itself is required by the moral laws.

Perhaps you may reconsider your position. Keeping the Moral Laws of the Mosaic Covenant includes carrying out the prescribed punishments noted above.

We know from Hebrews that where there is a change of Priesthood there is a change of Laws: (from Levi [Mosaic Laws] to Jesus everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek [The Laws of Jesus Christ]).


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Arthur Biele

 2011/8/5 21:38Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by tuc on 2011/8/5 6:30:25

"It is just a matter of words.

You are right - a mirror can not make anyone clean.

My original statement still stands.

I do not have a relationship with the law at all because Christ made me dead to the law."

And I agree with you fully, Tuc. Jesus was not an example for us on how to keep the Mosaic Laws. He kept them on our behalf, then He shed His blood on the cross which atones for all sins of those who accept Jesus blood as a permanent covering of all our sins, received the Holy Spirit through whom God works His good will in us, that we may do the good He created us to do. It is His work in us that transforms us, a gift from God to us that we may have eternal life and eternal fellowship with God and each other.

The only reason why we are SAVED is not because of any works or good deeds we do, we are saved solely by accepting the blood covering of Jesus Christ on the cross, the perfect Lamb of God who takes away our sins. This is our faith in God, that we believe Him.


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Arthur Biele

 2011/8/5 21:44Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by UntoBabes on 2011/8/4 13:35:07

"tuc,
Do you then believe in "Sinless perfection"?"


What is "Sinless Perfection"?

A stone, a shovel, a lake, these never sin. Have they reached sinless perfection.

The Apostle John made it clear that we humans who live on this planet Earth will sin throughout our life, even if we are true Christians.

1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
NASU

Look carefully at verse 8, John states we will sin throughout our life. I know that I do. I wish I did not, but I know I do, and so does everyone else who knows me. I simply am imperfect.

8. IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN, WE ARE DECEIVING OURSELVES AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.

Note that He is writing to Christians.

We are not saved because we became sinless, we are saved because we accepted the shed blood that sinless Jesus, our paschal Lamb, shed His blood as full atonement of all our sins, past, present, and future.

We need to stop thinking about becoming sinless, and rather, we need to actuate the changes God is making in us day by day through the working of the Holy Spirit in us. We have fellowship with God, bring God into everything we do.

Holiness is not the absence of sin in our life, Holiness is the presence of God in our life.

Or would you rather be a rock?


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Arthur Biele

 2011/8/5 22:20Profile





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