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sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Hi Renoncer,

I read your account and it appears that even though you said the man was "in his right mind", you really can't know that for sure can you? Demomiacs or demonized people frequently stand still, "pondering". What they are doing is listening to "voices". They are not always writhing about and yelling.

Sarah

 2011/8/4 20:44Profile
ManofGod0000
Member



Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


 Re:

It doesnt matter whether it is spiritual, chemistry, natural or un-natural, HE knows that way that we take, and HE shall bring us forth as pure gold.

I say this in humility for I have been subject to dealing with anxiety and depression, and I have no clue, I am suffering even to this day and down to the letters being types, but HE knows the way that I take.

I know of no other consolation, medication is a quick fix and thank God for it, but we must be dealt with by God in one way or another.

This is not to confirm or answer any question of certainty, it is just what I have been able to come up with as of now.

 2011/8/4 21:23Profile
DesertRose
Member



Joined: 2007/8/8
Posts: 123
Boston.MA

 Re:

Quote:"If the person who has behavioral problems is told that it is because there is something physically wrong with their mind and they need meds to stop their irrational behavior - they'll 'buy that lie' rather than get GODLY counsel, as those who have come out of the false-revival movement have received.
Once a person buys the mental-illness lie that was cooked up by secularists and worse - they have 'believed a lie' and are now subject to not having to truly deal with their behavior and the lies that they are now increasingly buying on a daily basis with this 'label'/diagnosis is setting them up for the ultimate fall eventually or soon enough.
Error breeds more error, and you know the rest"end quote

On the contrary a person suffering from mental illness can find great relief in the right medication and only then can they truly deal with their behavior and lies in their thinking.

I see no difference between physical illnesses treated with medication and mental illnesses treated with medication. To paint mental illness with such a broad brush and suggest that one needing medication is "buying into a lie” is dangerous advice and a disservice to those suffering from various forms of mental illness.
Would you give a person suffering physically the same advice to "not believe the lie" that they are physically ill.
Medication would not be necessary at all in any case if I follow your logic.

 2011/8/4 21:36Profile
Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

This is such a great thread, thank you so much for this information. My family, all of it, struggles with some sort of mental illness.


_________________
Bryan Reed

 2011/8/4 21:38Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

Sarah,
You're right, I don't know for sure what was happening to the man when we saw him again; only God knows. I can only pray and wait on the Lord to act. God has amazed me at just how much He can do in those types of circumstances. That's why I have high expectations... because I've seen the Lord at work in the past. (the same reason David could be so confident before Goliath)

Praise God!

 2011/8/4 22:10Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I see no difference between physical illnesses treated with medication and mental illnesses treated with medication. To paint mental illness with such a broad brush and suggest that one needing medication is "buying into a lie” is dangerous advice and a disservice to those suffering from various forms of mental illness.
Would you give a person suffering physically the same advice to "not believe the lie" that they are physically ill.
Medication would not be necessary at all in any case if I follow your logic.



Hi DesertRose,

"Mental" illness is different than say, diabetes.

Sis, what does the Word say about "the mind" or our "thoughts"? The verses are plenty. Just a quick check on the word "mind" in the KJV and the mind is mentioned 56 times.

Would GOD commmand anyone to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ - or "let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus" --- but only if your mind is not "sick" [with an illness]?

Sis, I've studied this for more yrs than I've even been into the Bible and I've been into the Bible for 35 yrs, [I'm a 'Senior citizen' now] so this one field was my burden from a very young age and I still read the latest findings and the opposing view points from the other psychiatric researchers and practicing 'professionals' in this field.

There are two schools of thought. I once was into the traditional school - the one that you are speaking from.
Later I was introduced to a group of psychiatrists that have given their lives to research mental "illness" and these were secular as well as Christian psychologists, psychiatrists and bio-researchers.

Those into psycho-pharmacology have done more harm to human beings than any newer branch of 'medicine' than any others.

I said in my second post that medication was meant to be a temporary help - just as you mentioned - until the person can be worked with and that's something that the other school of secular psychiatrists would also say - nonetheless Christian researchers.

There is ample evidence that the mind is not "sick" - but the person's 'thinking' is what's sick and that their minds need someone to see if the person is willing to reprogram their old methods of thinking [to put it in the simplest form]. But even in the secular methods of psycho-therapy - even that has been replaced by psycho-pharmacology.

There is ample evidence that proves out that any chemistry imbalance, etc comes after long-term "sick thinking" - UNLESS there has been some actual physical damage to the brain.

Again - What does The Word of GOD say about our minds and what we're to do with them? How could GOD just give flat out commands on what we're to do with our minds, if there are "Christians" out there that are "unable to".

Where in the Word do we see any Born-Again Christian as being "sick in their minds"?

Psycho-pharmacology is a newer form of treating "sick thinking & behavior". What was used in Bible times?

We're people of The Word and if there IS another large group of even secular psychiatrists that have researched and come to the conclusion, years ago, until this present day - that mental "illness" is a misnomer - are you open to that research?

I think you gave my post a quick read and fell back on what you know of the more prevelant view that's being pushed on the world and reacted from that one view point soley, without the research into the other researchers in this field - but more importantly - as Christians - how do we apply The Word to these type situations, where a mind is thinking irrationally and causing irrational 'behavior' as well?

Deception or "false thinking" begins in the mind. Whether it's self-generated or demonically instigated - The Word of GOD and His Spirit does not desire that any true Regenerated child of His, have false-irrational-thinking but a sound mind.

We as mature Christians need to learn to operate in His Spirit and by His Word and bring those who desire a sound mind, into that sound mind that Christ has promised to deliver us into.

That takes one on one ministry but cannot happen when one is being taught that they have an incurable "illness" and I find that so very sad because I've seen so many go down that path and it's not a path of Victory or "life and life more abundant" that He died to give them - but mental anguish that in many cases is a "choice".

Countless books would be needed to back up the evidence of the lies coming out of psychiatry but I did give that one secular site www.antipsychiatry.org if anyone is open to hearing from those secular Drs that are struggling to set people free from a big industry called pharma, for short.

But more importantly, please pray and read His Word and see if He would speak to this issue of sick minds. Thank you, Sis!

 2011/8/5 1:12
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

DesertRose,

Thank you for saying that. There are many physical illnesses that can cause depression and despair and really mess with the mind.

We are not Christian Scientists and it has nothing to do with believing a lie. You don't tell someone who is physically sick to just believe that they are well and not sick at all and you don't do that for mental illness, either.

Not all mental illness is false, irrational thinking.

Let's please separate deception and illness.

I can list many physical problems that cause mental problems.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/8/5 1:54Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re:

As I have written in the other thread, psychiatric drugs are not meant to cure mental disorders but it brings patients in to a psychological state where the desired behaviors can be learned more effectively either through formal psychotherapy, counseling, or by preaching the gospel.

As those positive or negative symptoms, for example of schizophrenia are improved, the patient is more amenable to instructions or reasoning. They can even be functional once again and that is indeed a big relief to himself, to his wife, to his children, to his community.

As for those psychiatrists vs psychiatrists let them solve their own problems, let science have its own ways and means to solve such conflicts.

For us christians we pray_ and we pray harder until we see that our God is mighty, He is good, and He answers our prayers.

1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Co 2:4 And my word and my preaching was not in enticing words of human wisdom, but in proof of the Spirit and of power,

1Co 2:5 that your faith might not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.




 2011/8/5 2:02Profile









 Re:


Twice I mentioned that medical conditions can affect the brain.

'That' is a topic outside of what this thread is about.

What "christian scientists" have to do with this discussion, I haven't a clue, but I also mentioned that these people who are wanting help from their irrational thoughts need one-on-one ministry and not to "just believe they are well".

At the least, on this forum, we should actually read the full posts of those we are opposing and not misrepresent a brother or sister in Christ.

 2011/8/5 2:05









 Re:

The reason it is advisable to not make a person dependent on drugs is the side affects that are even worse than the problem the person is taking the drugs for.

There are large law-suits against two anti-depressant drugs presently for women who gave birth to deformed babies.

There has also been enough news of the violence and suicide that these anti-depressants have been responisible for.

There are also law suits for 'tardive dyskinesia' a hell on earth side affect from anti-psychotic drugs and neuroleptics that are being handed out so generously in this generation.

The list goes on for side affects and I ask - Is This GOD's perfect will for His Creation? Man's solution of experimental drugs? The newer drugs have no long term research behind them. And one by one these newer drugs that big pharma give Drs perks to prescribe are winding up in court for the damage done. "Death" is a damage that is incurable.

 2011/8/5 2:15





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