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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : 16,000 attend the grand opening of Joel Olsteen's new Lakewood Church, including Texas Gov. Rick Per

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Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

I have seen where Joel refused to speak out that Jesus Christ was the only way. My question is this, do we condemn every person that darkens the doorway of his building? The subject reads about Joels new building/meeting place, and then mentions Rick Perry. Should we attack both men? Is Rick Perry and Joel Osteen condemned to hell already? Has judgement day passed? Should we harp on others wrongs and blast it out in the forums? Maybe Joel or Rick haven't yet heard all that we accuse them of? Maybe we are their last hope? I say these last few lines foolishly of course. But I pray that if I stray in someway that you would all pray for me and seek the Lord on my behalf.

Here is what I am thinking, please correct me if I'm wrong. If we know the truth and hold tight to it in our own life then what do we have to fear? If we see our neighbors or family involved in something that isn't leading them closer to our Lord Jesus then we should speak to them in love and concern. If someone at work is involved in questionable things and they are Christian then shouldn't we, in love, approach them after much prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit?

I just don't understand the constant pointing of fingers. Questionable acusations towards the body. Are we so pure of heart that we can see all tares and all wheat? If we are in Christ Jesus and He is in us don't we feel more a need to help, pray, and work to pull the body together rather then split it more. Don't you notice how we hurt one another by condemning others?


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Bryan Reed

 2011/8/4 15:46Profile









 Re: Lovefirst

Brother you are right and we all stand convicted. May God forgive us. Blaine

 2011/8/4 16:55
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re:

"Do we condemn every person that darkens the doorway"?


I would remind you that this is a large church with a few doorways. This gospel which is no gospel at all is being imported all over the doorways of the world. Countless millions will spend eternity in torment because of its attraction to their flesh. If the body of Christ is birthed in this gospel then God owes man an apology.

Did anyone say that evangelism should not come forth out of love? While it cannot be said that there might not be a few belonging to the bride amongst the great throngs of those clamoring for what is being falsely taught, we should question whether this is about disturbing the wolf in the pen while we triage the sheep or whether we signal the warning to lost men that are enemies of Christ?

 2011/8/4 19:08Profile
Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 

by lylewise on 2011/8/4 15:08:22

"Do we condemn every person that darkens the doorway"?


"I would remind you that this is a large church with a few doorways. This gospel which is no gospel at all is being imported all over the doorways of the world. Countless millions will spend eternity in torment because of its attraction to their flesh. If the body of Christ is birthed in this gospel then God owes man an apology.

Did anyone say that evangelism should not come forth out of love? While it cannot be said that there might not be a few belonging to the bride amongst the great throngs of those clamoring for what is being falsely taught, we should question whether this is about disturbing the wolf in the pen while we triage the sheep or whether we signal the warning to lost men that are enemies of Christ?"

Indeed, you are correct. However, what good are we doing? Who that knows Christ hasn't recognized this? Is what we are doing producing any good fruit? Would it be the same as going to this church, after praying and fasting, and standing outside preaching the Gospel to members with passion and dedication? Or are we stroking our own egos and gossiping, slandering, and such with our statements?


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Bryan Reed

 2011/8/4 20:03Profile









 Re:

Saints you may want to look at the thread under this one. We have a President who favors Islam. Might I suggest that this is the far greater danger. At least Joel Olsteen or Gov. Rick Perry are not celebrating Ramadan as our President does.

Blaine

 2011/8/4 20:53
SimpleLiving
Member



Joined: 2008/1/11
Posts: 375
Minnesota, USA

 Re:

Lovefirst,

With all due respect, I think you're putting words in other people's mouths. I know you did with mine. Look back at the posts. I said that I was wary of Gov. Perry and that he doesn't sit well with me. That's it. Then you said...

Quote:
It really hurts to see us so quick to point fingers at everyone trying to find out whos the bad guy, in a community of grace we sure do point fingers a lot. I'm not saying everyone is a good guy but that none of us deserve our Lord Jesus and to pick out who He doesn't except is wrong.



Nobody else had said anything about anyone else at that time so I can only believe you were speaking about my post. Later on you said that Gov. Perry was being attacked. But you added a lot of your own words to what I said. Where did I say Jesus doesn't accept Him? Where did I say he was a bad guy? I said I was wary of him. How is that an attack?

Quote:
war·y   [wair-ee]
adjective
feeling or showing caution about possible dangers or problems.



Where in the Bible is it wrong to be wary of anyone? Matthew 10:16 says, in Jesus' own words, "Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

Gov. Perry gives me a check in my spirit. I'm wary of him. It would be unwise for me, through experience, not to pay attention to that check.

To be honest, I have two problems with your comment.

1) When you put words like that, and infer meanings that aren't there, in other people's mouths, it's the same as gossip and slander. It's exaggerating. One of the problems with discussion forums, including this one, is that many people have a high tendency to read things into posts that aren't really there and then comment on them in a manner that isn't true.

2) The way that you're using the "community of grace" phrase and wording the rest of your post, you're making it sound like Christians should never speak up unless it's all nice and positive. Is that how you think Jesus was?

I believe in tempering our words with grace. But I also believe in being honest and not putting on a false sense of humility. (I'm not accusing anyone of that, I'm saying that I don't believe putting on a false sense of humility.)

Many people have the idea that presenting Christ means being quiet, "humble," never raising our voices or saying anything that isn't nice. As if we have to justify everything we say with, "I don't deserve Him myself." We don't, but people often say that with a false sense of humility. In Him we are justified, made right in the eyes of a perfect judge. There's no room for false modesty in that.

The Christ we present is not a namby-pamby Jesus. The effeminate "gentle Jesus meek and mild" who walked around with his hands folded, strolling, head down. He's the Christ of the gospels who walked down dusty roads bronzed, strong and fearless. He was a carpenter who loved all kinds of people, laughed with them, celebrated with them but also spoke out against them when it was necessary. If He were in America today He'd be called "red blooded" because He was the type to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may. He wasn't the Jesus of pious sentiment. He became violent, even making a whip, when He upset the money lenders and the marketplace in the temple.

What I'm trying to paint here is that sometimes I think people speak about Jesus in a way that portrays Him as the tender, fragile, effeminate Jesus that many, like the Catholics, have portrayed Him to be. But He was a rugged Man of honesty, who enjoyed laughing, having a good time and wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade. He got angry. He got violent. And, while that's not a license for Christians to act that way, it's NOT wrong to say when people concern us.


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Keith

 2011/8/4 23:57Profile
carters
Member



Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138
Australia

 


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Mrs Carter

 2011/8/5 0:12Profile
Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

Simpleliving,

Are you saying that because of my statements that I'm slandering and gossiping? I would hope not. I know who and how Jesus is from what I have read about Him in the bible and how He deals with me, and desire everyday to know Him more. The title of this thread mentions Gov Perry, you brought him up, Krispy also made a mention. If this would be the only thread I saw such things then of course I would not be so inclined to say something. However, I see finger pointing at almost every single thread. I see knowledge puff up and tear down others. Very little building up, so much so that I can't see the love of the body of Christ.

In your post to me you explain a lot, with knowledge, of how you might view my character. Also, how my view of Jesus maybe incorrect. You took a shot at Catholics and you follow up with how Jesus is and what isn't wrong. I wish I didn't see it this way but I too call a spade a spade.

Yes it upsets me to see this type of tearing down of the body of Christ. Why is it easier to be so critical of one another instead of building each other up??? Either by words, deeds, or in prayer? Why are we so uptight and uneasy, always accusing and suspesious?


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Bryan Reed

 2011/8/5 3:49Profile
Edwards
Member



Joined: 2004/7/28
Posts: 9
Northeast Ohio

 Re:

Please let me know when Osteen talks about the holiness and justice of God, the blood of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, sin or the need to repent of our sin.


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Bob

 2011/8/5 6:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
At least Joel Olsteen is not reading from the Koran or their is no crescent moon flying over his church.



Ahhh... now there's the true Biblical test of a scriptural church, or whether a preacher is teaching sound doctrine!

Wow.

2 things that scripture commands that most believers dont have the stomache for are: 1) contend earnestly for the faith, and 2) mark and avoid those who teach false doctrine.

Evidence of this lack of understanding and lack of intestinal fortitude are evident right here on this thread.

We need to stop basing our concept of Jesus on Hollyweird movies and aging "Jesus Movement hippies".

Krispy

 2011/8/5 7:17





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