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Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

I am glad to see that this post is generating a good discussion.

Thanks Savannah for sharing about Elijah Ministries.

I think if we consider the time and effort that should go into training men to be godly leaders, and them in turn leading their families closer to Christ (including daily family devotions), we would realize that there is not much time left for fooling around. Sadly, we have a tendency to waste time on TV, entertainment, sports, foolish talk, and often, doubtful activities.

I was surprised to hear that many people who have gone through genuine Revival mention that the Holy Spirit takes away any interest for such things as sports, drinking, dancing, etc, and instead brings interest to the things of God, such as prayer, worship, Bible reading, and simply God-centered fellowship.

Perhaps as part of building the church and training men to be leaders, we should also deal with the need to change our schedule, removing some of the meaningless things and replacing them with meaningful things (in the light of eternity).

In Christ Jesus,
Renoncer

 2011/8/2 11:24Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2005


 Re: Family Man Family Leader


"I am glad to see that this post is generating a good discussion."

I am as well,Renoncer.

For those interested,an excellent resource on this subject is a book entitled," Family Man, Family Leader".

Here's a description of the book from one website:

The fullest and most complete modern Biblical treatise studying the subject of male headship in the home. Covers male primary responsibility, being king, prophet and priest, loving and honoring your wife, accountability to others and more.

What this country and the church need now are a few good men-husbands and fathers who are willing to love and lead their households with manly resolve and godly vision. We are experiencing a national crisis of manhood. Absent a revival of fatherhood, we can expect to see an ever-increasing rise in the numbers of effeminate boys and masculine women, and the total breakdown of the Christian family. We need family men and family leaders.

Part of one review of the book states:

A good man would not be as “hard to find” if more men followed the advice in this excellent book! It outlines a vision of godly manhood that is not only slipping away from our modern culture, but from our churches as well. Christian homes are suffering from the lack of manly leadership. This book clearly traces the root of the problem to its source, then provides step-by-step solutions from God’s Word. 329 pages,from Vision Forum.

What some others have said about the book:

I find much to like about this book, and very little to dislike – when measured against the benchmark of inerrant Scripture.

Mr lancaster hits the problems on the head. This is a great book. Christ is the head of man, man is the leader of the family under Gods authority. This book was very biblical based, and I found it very useful. Thanks.

This is the best book I've read on what the biblical role of men is in leading their families. It reviews what has happened in recent history that has led to the break down of the family and then turns to the bible to give practical instruction on how men need to get back to their God ordained role as leaders of the family. I have recommended this book to my married and single friends as well. This book gets 5 stars from me.

A must read for every Christian man and woman. Lancaster reiterates basic Biblical truths that have been lost in our modern society. The significance of the Faminly and male leadership is inescapable in God's Word. The insights provided in this book should reshape our thinking to return to what God has commanded, not suggested, for thousands of years. Most of the ills of modern society in Europe and America can be attributed to lack of understanding of these principles. If we had been following them as God has prescribed and commanded, pornography, abortion, homosexuality, etc. would not be issues today. The indifference of the Christian community to family and God's roles for men and women are clearly at the core of what ails society today. Lancaster book and the Family Integrated Church movement are a call back to the Bible and being God's people God's way. I am sending this book to all my sons and brothers with encouragement to hear the voice of the Lord and act in obedience to His call upon their heart to turn their hearts back to the children and do what is commanded of us all. Thank you Philip lancaster for a book that is reforming the way Christians think and act to return them back to THE source of truth God's Holy Word.

The book may be purchased,among other places,at the following link:

http://www.christianfamilylifebooks.com/product/1929241836

“How can it be right to look at the things that are wrong to do? How can those things which defile a man when they go out of his mouth not defile him when going in through his eyes and ears?”

 2011/8/3 10:17Profile
dvndsn
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 86
Kentucky

 Re:

I agree with this. The fathers are the problem, not the youth. However, the youth is a problem in a sense of there should be no youth program at any church. "Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm." - ESV Proverbs 13:20. This, my brothers and sisters is the root of the problem. My wife and I are youth workers in our church, which is ironic really, but if given the choice, we would definitely have the youth with the parents in the sanctuary on wednesday nights.
A lot of parents these days have really dropped the ball biblically on what it means to parent a child, including me. I know I need to pray with my son (13 months old) every night. I know he needs his daily Bible reading. It doesn't matter if he's understanding what I am reading, what he is getting in his head is that this needs to be a daily thing. It's what I need to do before I go to sleep and before I wake up.

 2011/8/3 10:50Profile
dvndsn
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 86
Kentucky

 Re:

To follow up with what Savannah said about book resources, my wife and I really enjoyed Voddie Baucham's "Family Driven Faith". Best resource I know for raising a Biblical family.

 2011/8/3 10:52Profile
jrcorry
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 4


 Re:

One of the most common sins to be commited by mankind is the tendency to try to bend God's Word to suit our own purposes. I believe this sin is sometimes even subconsciously committed, by people who are (or believe themselves to be) earnest believers in Christ. Still, sin is sin, and a person is greatly fooled if they bend God's word to benefit themselves rather than either God or His flock.

This author, Phillip Lancaster, is such a man. In this book, where he tries to raise a dead form of male-rule from the dust, he proves various times to be more in support of man-made power issues than the humility and meekness that's so important for a Christian to have. Rarely have I seen anyone try so hard to use God as a backboard for their own personal gain.

This book began with the typical worn-out patriocentrist arguments: men were meant to rule, this is God's order, feminists are evil, etc. I wasn't particularly surprised or offended until I saw the words "men were made to lead and women to follow". Wow; this author doesn't even bother to hide his low views of womanhood and short-sighted Biblical understanding. Of course, Lancaster tried to cover his butt with the typical "women are equal in spirit" jazz, but it was, as always, painfully see-through and false. I guess I should be used to this by now, but it still offends me to see such inflated pride in a man, especially when he amusingly tries to cloak it with Christianity. I guess he remains in blissful ignorance of the stories of Deborah, Huldah, Phoebe, Chloe, and Esther in the Bible. It turned out, though, that this was only the tip of the iceberg.

Lancaster reveres male authority to an extent that's anything but healthy. Rather than focusing on God's state as all-powerful and utterly Spirit, this book tries to make God out as some masculine force that serves to empower men and male-rule. At one point, it actually says, "Christian man fills the same offices held by Christ, chief of which is that of king".

Even now, I'm still marveling at these words. Men don't even compare to God; that notion would be humorous if it wasn't so blatantly blasphemous. Jesus wasn't A king, He was THE King, the King of all nations, all people, everything that treads the earth and beyond. This is an "office", as this book calls it, that no man will ever come close to filling, nor woman. As God's children, we are called to model His servanthood and His love, NOT His authority! The Bible says to love each other, not to lead or lord each other; how dare this author even imply that men model Christ's role as King! The choice of words was poor anyway, because Kingship was never an "office" for Christ; in case Lancaster forgot, Jesus was never officially King while he was on earth. The reason for this was that His kingship was a Holy state of being, not an earthly office, so human men could not model this position even if they were meant to be the supreme rulers that Lancaster seems to think they are.

If I didn't know better, I would think that Lancaster believed Christ died just to put men on a demi-god pedestal. This book actually says, "Christ restores men to their calling to rule the earth for the glory of God. Christ enables men to be kings".

Another statement that's both unGodly and sexist. Firstly, God stated before creation that man AND woman would rule the earth; nice try at leaving women out of the picture. Secondly, Christ came to humble us and save us, not to make us rulers. When we just begin to comprehend the enormity of His sacrifice, we should fall to our knees overwhelmed by humility, not take this as an opportunity to appoint ourselves as governors. We should also recall that Christ had to die because we failed so miserably at ruling His earth, not because He's eager to make us monarchs. I can't imagine that Lancaster or anyone would think of Christ's pain and take from it a false crown for his own head, rather than a hood of humility.

There were definitely other points of offense; Lancaster calls the father king, prophet, and priest, attempting to make fathers believe that they serve as some sort of intermediary between their families and God. Sorry, wrong again. Women and children are perfectly capable of having their own relationships with God. Plus, while I would like to strain the fact that I DO believe men are called to be spiritual teachers for their children (as are women), wives do not need this treatment; they are capable of Biblical understanding by themselves. Still, even these offensive points paled in comparison to Lancaster's unbelievably blatant attempt to uplift men to unholy pedestals, while apparently using Christ as a springboard. I must seriously question where his heart lies in this matter.

I was originally going to give this book a two star review, because there are some good points of advice, but the depths that this author sinks to in order to uplift male power canceled out any good points. All things considered, I really cannot recommend it at all.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3U059QNDJY3TB/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1929241836&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful

Jenny

 2011/8/3 11:06Profile
jrcorry
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 4


 Recommended Books

For those that are interested:

There are some excellent books on this topic, and here are some I recommend:

"Paul, Women and Wives" by Craig Keener

"What Paul really said about Women" by Pastor John Bristow

"Women in the Maze" by Ruth Tucker

"Liberated by Submission" by Bunny Wilson (examines the concept of submission and how it's a daily part of life rather than a gender requirement) and perhaps especially

Sarah Sumner's brilliant book "Men and Women in the Church" (excellently examines roles in marriage, among other things). Sumner is neither complimentarian nor egalitarian and, having no personal feelings or leanings in this matter, she has deeply explored Biblical history, context, and language. She is utterly calm, rational, and scholarly; her book is a must-read!

Jenny

 2011/8/3 12:24Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re: Recommended Books

Jenny,
Please, if you want to discuss feminism or the role of women, there are other threads for that purpose. You may be interested in this one: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35133&forum=34&5

This discussion has been very constructive and God-honoring up to this point, and I don't want the enemy to put a stop to that.

In Christ,
Renoncer

 2011/8/3 13:05Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Jenny wrote:

" God stated before creation that man AND woman would rule the earth; nice try at leaving women out of the picture."

Looks to me like you contradicted yourself in one sentence!

Renouncer suggested one not divert this thread into a discussion of women's role in life so I will try hard to refrain from going there. But do wonder about Jenny contradicting herself...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/8/3 14:50Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Jenny,

I read this post this morning and it has been on my mind all day. It disturbed me so much. Much as I dislike hijacking this thread, I must beg the original poster's pardon for doing so.

I have never read anything written by Phillip Lancaster, so I googled his name and found his book listed on amazon. I noticed it had 13 reviews, all of whom were positive except for one. I clicked on it and saw your review posted, same as here. Now that I am writing I see you had posted a link to it - which I had not noticed before. As I read your conversation on that "Customer Reviews" I also noticed you have written many reviews dealing with male/female issues. The tone all reflect the one you posted here.

Jenny, as I read your posts on Amazon and here I sense a bitter attitude in you towards males. I find this very grievous. Apparently your experience with them has been bitter in the past, hence your attitude. I suspect you have been either abused by a male relative[s], have had an abortion[s], or been divorced - hence your animosity. Jenny, this disturbs me. There is no other reason for any female to lead a crusade in male bashing unless this has been your experience. I find this very sad - I was raised by a loving dad and have a loving husband - been married for almost 44 years.

May I suggest to you that you go for help. You need it because your eternal destiny hinges upon your resolving this issue. You must remember that unless you learn to forgive those who hurt you God will never forgive you. Now this is a tall order to one who loves to revel in her hurt - one experiences a lot of satisfaction there and to suggest otherwise is to invite anger towards the one suggesting it, so I am risking your anger and I do not mind.

I also suspect you really have no intentions to come on here and discuss issues, etc - all you are interested in is male-bashing wherever you can on the web and you found SI and dropped your poison here. So sad.

Go, get help, I beg you...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/8/4 1:32Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

Ginnyrose,
Your last comment to Jenny was very appropriate. Thank you for doing the right thing.

In Christ,
Renoncer

 2011/8/5 13:23Profile





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