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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God Annihilates the Mosaic Covenant with its 613 Laws.

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mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Quote:
It's disheartening to find a young man that claims to know more than J.C. Ryle.



I doubt I know more than Ryle, but Ryle is just as wretched as me and is capable of mistakes just as I. I wouldn't really put my hope and trust in a man but in Christ alone.

Quote:
Even if I quote Scripture - another will their own favorite verses that they believe negate the ones I or someone else will post. So whether it's quoting a book or The Book, we're accused of taking quotes out of context.



No the Word doesn't negate itself be enforces itself and its message Faith in Christ and Good ole holiness emparted by Christ. I too see the futility in talking religion, Christ freed me from it and my chains are gone.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/2 1:08Profile
paps
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Joined: 2011/6/30
Posts: 12


 Re:

I salute you great soldier of christ. I enjoyed reading your post Just had some few questions in mind.

1. you said Jesus never reached out to the gentiles for their salvation, nor did He ever preach the New Covenant prior to His death. I stand to be corrected though but I realized that though the book of matthew was written by a jew , he nonetheless records more Gentile places in his Gospel than is to be found in the other Gospels. From chapter 4 to chapter 18, he narrates especially the Lord’s work in Galilee, Galilee of the Gentiles. To whom, then, are the words of these particular Scriptures addressed? Is not to the galileans as well?

2.Is preaching (talking) about the holy spirit part of the new or old covenant. If its new then will i be wrong to suggest that Jesus preached the new covenant prior to his death?

 2011/8/2 7:36Profile
paps
Member



Joined: 2011/6/30
Posts: 12


 Re:

br. mgulder I must admit that i agree with you on being justified only by faith. what we need to understand is

1. we still have our will. our soul did not die at regeneration that is why we need to transform, not by our strength but by the indwelling spirit of God within us and by the word of GOD. WE have our minds, emotions, affections and will intact.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I know u understand that in salvation the old man was crucified with christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

But that is not the end, we did not just die we were also made alive in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

there is therefore a need to reckon this and live in line with this fact. how?by yielding to the spirit of God. which others call obedience to the commandment of God.

In this working there is a need for co-operating with the holy spirit. This makes the difference between a carnal believer and the spiritual. I know u will agree with me that the people that Paul addresses at Corinth were justified only by their faith in CHRIST JESUS but yet they are referred to as carnal. I believe because they were not yielding to the work of the holy spirit within them
But I like the statement 'I am certain we are meaning the same thing with just a different angle on the subject', For this true. But caution must be taken to ensure the necessary balance is established

 2011/8/2 8:33Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I do agree brother, Submission to the Holy Spirit is key to being lead by the Spirit. I can't do it myself nor is it my work, I mearly submit. Idealy I should be an empty vessel for the Holy Spirit to do as He wishes. His Will and my will are two different things in the carnal sense, we align when I decide to lay my will aside for Christ's will to shine through. But again this is not my work or my desire Without Christ. Its all Him through and through, the believer contributes the very least in His/Her Salvation thus rendering their righteousness useless.

Christ does everything, my ultimate goal in Christ is this, Become nothing make Christ everything. I know its an uphill battle both ways and that I can't do this on my own but with Christ it is possible and thus is it Christ who is doing the work, I am just coming along for the ride because I am far to weak to climb but with Christ's strength in me I can because it is He who is doing.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/2 8:46Profile









 Re:

If you were ever in the military, you know that submitting in and of itself takes strength and self-control. Submitting is not an easy thing when living in this flesh and it is much more than we give it credit for.

God will not do the submitting in us, for us. Submitting is not an easy thing. It must be purposed, practiced, disciplined and it must be wholehearted.

First, we choose to submit with a wholeheart and then we carry it out, no matter how great the pain to oneself, or the loss to oneself. God is looking for this kind of heart. Joyful sacrifice and submission.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Julius

 2011/8/2 9:22
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

How much must one submit? And Are you ever really truly fully submitted? We can not submit enough in our own power, and I testify it is only by Christ anyone ever even comes to submission. On top of the fact if our salvation is based on how submitted we are then we are all in trouble because only full complete submission would be acceptable to a Just and Holy God. I agree we must fully submit but to claim its out of our strength seems wrong. Without Christ we don't even had a desire to do good or even to seek after God. without Christ we don't even have a desire to submit and surely He is the source and strength of one who is fully submitted. Look at King David as an example, He was fully submitted to God at times in terms of His will but at times he was far from submitted and he paid for it, was David not saved?


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/3 11:25Profile









 Re:

I did not tie submission to salvation.

Fulfilling God's Will and bearing fruit would be more in order.

 2011/8/3 11:32
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

After rereading your post you are right, I apologize for the misread. I agree submission is of our own will that we must lay our wills down in order for the Father's will to be active in our lives. Christ and His Love gives us the reason, desire, and motivation to submit to Him because surely He is a Good God worthy of our submission. :)


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/8/3 12:43Profile
sarahsdream
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Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

Often, God has to "convince" us that His way is the right and only way. He has many devices at His disposal to "convince" us, right? He knows how to turn our hearts to Him. He is the Shepherd that goes after the 1 straying sheep out of 100. He will leave the 99, to find the 1 and bring it back. Eventually, we will learn that following Him and not straying is the best way.

Sarah

 2011/8/3 13:02Profile
ArtB
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re: The Laws of Jesus Christ, Salvation through the Atoning blood of Jesus!

Okay. I allowed a few days for others here to share their thoughts on the scriptures and argument that I made in my initial post. And I have read all replies.

The following is my reply to Jesus-is-God posts.

Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/7/29 11:55:43 wrote:

"I do understand and worded my post similar to yours but what is on my mind is Romans 2 starting with verse 12 and several other verses containing the moral law as well - and 1Pe 4:11 _ "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of GOD ..."

To begin with, one can not take snippets of the book of Romans and argue: "this is what Paul means, or that is what Paul means." Paul's Romans is a Thesis, What was, What is, What will be. He starts by saying what was, both for gentiles with only man-made law, and then for Jews under the Mosaic Covenant. Neither pleased God, all were under condemnation from God. He goes on to WHAT IS: The Gospel of Jesus Christ! Then what will be, The Gentiles will be saved until the Age Of Grace comes to an end, then 'All Israel Will Be Saved" when the times of the Gentiles entering the Kingdom of God comes to an end.

(BTW, Has anybody notice that the number of Christians in the world is rapidly declining, particularly if you measure by percentage of World Population.)

Now Lets look at your referenced scripture, Romans 2:1-16:

Ro 2:1-16

1. Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

(Paul is saying, if you condemn others of sin, then you are condemning yourself, because none, except Jesus, have ever been sinless. "By what measure you measure," Jesus said, "So shall it be measured unto you.")

2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.

(Yes we do, ultimate death.)

3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

(Again, Paul emphasizes by what measure we mete out to others, so shall we be judged by our own standard, and found lacking. Jesus taught this in the Sermon on the Mount.)

4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

(What is God's kindness? God's Kindness is that He sent His only begotten Son to keep the entire Mosaic Law, This qualified Jesus to become the perfect Paschal Lamb Whose suffering and death He took in our place, and His blood shed on the crosses washes away all sins for all time to all who sincerely believes that Jesus atoning blood as washing away all their sins for all time. This is the FAITH in God that God always wanted us to have and live by. This FAITH allows the Holy Spirit to live in us, Our Helper, who works in us to transform our very nature so that we will do the good that God created us to do, and it will be pure pleasure and never a burden. Jesus Blood shed on the cross is our blood covering that takes away our sins for all time, no need for any further blood sacrificing.)

From Php 1:3-11
I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4 always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, 5 in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now. 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. 7 For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me. 8 For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; 11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. NASU

And so are we so blessed because we have been saved by the faith of Jesus. Note verse 6 above and know it is God that perfects us, and He will not fail. Verse 6 is a statement of fact. What God sets out to do in us He will accomplish in us. This is living by faith, knowing God will do this for us.

Phil 6. "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

Go on and Read Phil 2: 1-18. These statements are not those 'Do Not' negative statements of the Mosaic Laws, These are positive uplifting joyful loving statements. What God sets out to do WILL GET DONE. Believe Him and know it will happen to you.


Romans: 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

In versus Ro 5-10, we must keep in mind what their crime is as mentioned in verse 1. They were Judging others and condemning them. And their Judgement is most likely correct. But we all SIN! So Paul says, and Jesus said this also, when you condemn others, you are also condemning yourself because you sin also. This is a violation of a Law of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. The Law of Liberty. That mercy triumphs over Judgement.

Mt 5:7

7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.


Read also Matt 18:21- 35.

Jas 1:25
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, THE LAW OF LIBERTY, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

AND, From James the brother of Jesus.

Jas 2:8-13

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the Law of Liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
NASU

Under the Mosaic Law, there is no mercy, except perhaps in the cities of refuge. If a man and a woman are judged in a Jewish Court of Law of committing adultery, The Mosaic Law required they be stoned to death, and then hung on a tree for all to see.

Is there anyone here who actually thinks they live with the intent of keeping the Mosaic Covenant?



12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. NASU

It is important to realize that Paul, when writing Romans 12 - 16, is writing solely about people who are still under the Mosaic law, those who have not accepted Jesus sacrifice on the Cross as full atonement, both Jew and pagan (Greek). Paul shares the good news in detail later in the Book of Romans, in a powerful argument ending with Romans 8:1

Ro 8:1-4
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

Dear Jesus-is-God, I do believe the above is 100% true. I can not lose my salvation.

And yes,
Ro 8:1-4 is the 3rd Law of the New Covenant that we have with God. The Mosaic Laws condemned everyone. But by The Laws of Jesus Christ, God saves us!

I do not even think about the Mosaic Laws. I am committed to the Laws of Jesus Christ, my faith is in them and in Jesus finished work for me on the cross. I have the indwelling Holy Spirit, I have confidence in His transforming power in me. How? I walk by faith in God's words of the NT, I believe He will complete the work that He started in me. I am in daily fellowship with God, via the indwelling Holy Spirit. When Jesus died on the cross, the Veil in the Temple that separated man from God, it was torn asunder, thus ending our separation from God in the Garden of Eden. We Christians are in fellowship with God, Father, Son, and the indwelling Holy Spirit. It's a love story.


All Scriptures are from NASU



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Arthur Biele

 2011/8/3 23:45Profile





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