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Josef83
Member



Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 Bible verses nobody wants to see.

Take a look at this passages:
2 Thess 2:9-12 - God puts deception upon people;
Matt 11:25-27- Jesus Praises God that he has hidden the truth to some people and he even say its Gods will;
Mark 4:12 - Jesus says he speaks in parabales so that people WILL NOT understand him.
Rom 11:7 - Paul say that God has hardend Israel so they wont get saved now.
Rev 17:17 - Says that it was Gods plan to put in peoples mind to follow the beast.
Prov 21:1 - says that Gods leads the thought of the kings wherever he likes.
Hebr 12:17 - Says that God denied Esau Repentance even though he cried for it.

 2011/7/16 9:38Profile









 Re: Bible verses nobody wants to see.

And your point is?

Really enjoyed my visit to the Philippines BTW. I went by U.S. merchant ship. We went to a city across the bay from Manilla called Limal/Limay. Then I took the Gitney to the city of Batangas. I saw the cross (Mt. Sabat?) on the way.

The beaches there are beautiful. Quezon Beach and the other real popular beach I can't think of right now.

 2011/7/16 9:59
Josef83
Member



Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 Re:

Philippines is nice.
Specially Mindanao.

There is a good preaching about Does God have 2 wills? - Matt Chandler
Where many of this verses are quoted
http://denton.thevillagechurch.net/resource_files/audio/20070410DoesGodHaveTwoWills.mp3

 2011/7/16 10:03Profile









 Re: Bible verses nobody wants to see.



Isn't God Wonderful!!

2 Thess 2:9-12 - God puts deception upon people;

Reason: 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ........because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Matt 11:23-25- Jesus Praises God that he has hidden the truth to some people and he even say its Gods will;

Reason: Men think they are so wise, He was mainly speaking about the religious crowd.

Mark 4:12 - Jesus says he speaks in parables so that people WILL NOT understand him

Reason: So that men will not use their natural understanding to understand them but seek God who has the answers.

Rom 11:7 - Paul say that God has hardened Israel so they won't get saved now.

Reason: Especially to them because they had the law, they are without excuse, they are not ignorant of God. By the way, if you read the Acts, the Jewish conversions were massive but because of the pressures of the law many turned back and thus God hardened their hearts and the branches fell off the tree.

Rev 17:17 - Says that it was Gods plan to put in peoples mind to follow the beast.

Reason: Again, when you don't have a love for the truth, what follows is deception.

Prov 21:1 - says that Gods leads the thought of the kings wherever He likes.

Reason: Isn't He wonderful that He can do all these thing?

Hebr 12:17 - Says that God denied Esau Repentance even though he cried for it.

Reason: Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.











 2011/7/16 10:11
Josef83
Member



Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 Re:

Some more verses supporting the doctrine of reprobation:

1 Petr 2:8 "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."

"who were before of old ordained to this condemnation" Jud .4

 2011/7/17 6:48Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re:

@Josef83,

Is your doctrine of reprobation, based on 'foreknowledge' or the calvinist version of predestination.

 2011/7/17 8:00Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: Bible verses nobody wants to see.

Quote:
Take a look at this passages:
2 Thess 2:9-12 - God puts deception upon people;




2Th 2:9 The coming of the [lawless one] is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



God is condemning these people for a specific reason. Can you find that reason?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2011/7/17 8:40Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Quote:
2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.




Here is an example of those who rejected God repeatedly, and then the resultant work of God sending strong delusion among those who did not receive the love of the truth...


1Ki 22:19 Then [Micaiah] said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left.

1Ki 22:20 "And the LORD said, 'Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?' So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.

1Ki 22:21 "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will persuade him.'

1Ki 22:22 "The LORD said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the LORD said, 'You shall persuade [him], and also prevail. Go out and do so.'

1Ki 22:23 "Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you."


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Jeff Marshalek

 2011/7/20 12:38Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: God or the devil?

All the verses above speak of GOD as the one acting upon sinful man, the author of judgment. This makes me wonder if the words “the god of this age” refers to God, especially since the Greek here for “the god” is exactly the same as the Greek for “God” everywhere else, and the Greek for “age” is the same as for “eternity” elsewhere.

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel...” 2 Corinthians 4:4


Questions to ponder:
Can Satan ever be considered the author of judgment upon humanity?
If God permits Satan to be an accomplice in judgment, then is God still not the one sovereign?

Is our theology not eschewed if we attribute spiritual desensitization to Satan? (ex in Open Theology)

Is this hardening not actually the effect of the fall: “All have fallen short of the glory of God”?

Since all humanity is turfed from the garden (by GOD), all stand in need of an awakening by the Spirit (salvation from divine judgment).

Does "nobody" want to see this reality about our human condition, because it confronts our understanding of "love"? Judgement is regarded as the antithesis of love when really it is the expression of love: "I am a jealous God..."

Any thoughts?


Diane


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Diane

 2011/7/20 14:39Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1032
Oregon

 Re:

Roadsign said:
All the verses above speak of GOD as the one acting upon sinful man, the author of judgment. This makes me wonder if the words “the god of this age” refers to God, especially since the Greek here for “the god” is exactly the same as the Greek for “God” everywhere else, and the Greek for “age” is the same as for “eternity” elsewhere.

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel...” 2 Corinthians 4:4


Answer:
The expression “ the god of this age” can not be a reference to God for the following reason:
The word “ age” or “aion in Greek” may be the same as eternity or ever ( meaning unlimited amount of time) but when the word “ This” or “toutou in Greek” has preceded it, it limited its meaning. For example: The word “ light” in the sentence” God is light” refers to an unlimited amount of light, but when I say: This light, one light, some light, or even much light, or a lot of light, the meaning is significantly changed. In this case reduced.



Roadsign said:
Can Satan ever be considered the author of judgment upon humanity?
If God permits Satan to be an accomplice in judgment, then is God still not the one sovereign?

Answer:
Satan is not the author of judgment but he is used by God for blinding unbelievers who resisted the convicting work of the Holy Spirit.
Also see: 2 Thess 2: 11,12
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Roadsign said:
Is this hardening not actually the effect of the fall: “All have fallen short of the glory of God”?
Since all humanity is turfed from the garden (by GOD), all stand in need of an awakening by the Spirit (salvation from divine judgment).

Answer:
The Spirit of God draws all men and convicts all men through the witness of creation and conscience. But when man resists all of that, he places himself under God’s judgment.

I have posted this story about Aaron Burr in another thread but it is a perfect example of someone who resisted the conviction of the Holy Spirit and God left him forever. This man made himself irredeemable.

Aaron Burr, wayward grandson on Jonathan Edwards.

Many of you may not know the story of Aaron Burr and the gospel meetings on the campus of Princeton University. When he was nineteen years of age, a brilliant student, a revival broke out on the campus. He was deeply convicted. His roommate asked him to accept Jesus Christ as his Savior, and he was almost persuaded. He went to see one of his professors and he told his professor about his dilemma. The professor gave him a Bible and said, “Go to your room and pray to this matter on your knees.” Instead of doing it, he tried to shake off the power of the Holy Spirit in conviction. And, finally, in desperation, he cried out, “God, let me alone and I’ll let you alone.” And as soon as he said it, all conviction left him.
Years later, he met a friend whom he admired very much, and this friend said to him, “Dr. Burr, I’d like to have you meet a friend of mine.” And, Dr. Burr said, “If he’s anything like you, I’d be glad to meet him.” His friend said, “His name is Jesus Christ. I’d like for you to meet him.” According to the account, cold sweat broke out on Aaron Burr’s forehead, and he told about this experience at age nineteen, when he said, “God, let me alone and I’ll let you alone.” And then he said, “From that day to this, I’ve never had one desire to be a Christian.” We may not be able to commit the unpardonable sin in the sense of Matthew, chapter 12, but it is possible for a man to commit unpardonable sin.



Roadsign said:
Does "nobody" want to see this reality about our human condition, because it confronts our understanding of "love"? Judgment is regarded as the antithesis of love when really it is the expression of love: "I am a jealous God..."


Answer:
Amen. However, this kind of judgment does not intend to draw man to God. It is final and irreversible. I can not say that God loves such. God has only one expression of love that is lasting and that is Christ. If anyone refuses to come through Christ, such is outside the boundaries of God’s love. I am not saying that any expression of rejecting Christ immediately places man under God’s judgment, But in times of Revival when God’s Spirit weighs down on man’s conscience with all His intensity, rejection in this case is fatal and final.







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Fifi

 2011/7/20 17:30Profile





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