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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A 15-Year Retrospective on the Lordship Controversy (by John MacArthur)

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Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

Old Joe said, "the Gospel is not found in Matthew".

So, you are saying that the Gospel is not found in "The Gospel according to Matthew"? (At this point, you can say, "I made a mistake!") If you can't find the Gospel in Matthew, it just shows that you do not know what the Gospel is. I would argue that the Gospel is found in every single book of the Bible (especially in the GOSPELS!!!).

Now, I hope that you will confess your error. I hope that you are not just bent on provoking, arguing, slander, and stirring up division. The Bible has some pretty harsh things to say about this. Please read the following passages: Galatians 5:26, Titus 3:10-11, Ephesians 4:29-31, 1Timothy 6:3-4, 2Timothy 3:2-5.

Love in Christ,
Renoncer

 2011/7/9 10:10Profile









 Re:

Give it a go then Renoncer, show me the Gospel in Matthew.

OJ

 2011/7/9 10:18
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
(Matthew 16:24-25)

In case you do not trust Jesus as faithfully proclaiming the Gospel - how we might find eternal life in Him - you may want to compare Jesus' words to Paul's words:

For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him.
(Romans 6:7-8)

Now, you may have trouble understanding the Gospel because we have reduced it down to four spiritual laws or some other man-made cliché. Ask yourself these questions: "What does it mean to believe? What does it mean to be in Him, and He in us? What does it mean to follow Jesus? What does it mean to trust in Him? What does it mean to belong to Jesus?"

 2011/7/9 10:37Profile









 Re:

That not the Gospel, there is no atonement, no resurrection, no faith, no blood, all the essentials are missing. You have narrowed it down to what you do, not what Christ has accomplished.

Try again!

OJ

 2011/7/9 10:55









 Re:

A bit confused. Was given two verses that seemed to cover all that I was expected to do to gain "everlasting life" ... "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" ... so were those two verses given to me, meant to be the full "Gospel"?


About Matthew - these questions ...


"no blood atonement"? .....

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


"No resurrection"? ....

Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.


"No faith"? ....

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold,
and shall inherit "everlasting life."


"No atonement"? ....

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.




"He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" ... is that all that's really required?

 2011/7/9 12:40
JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

Good answer Jesus-is-God.


_________________
James

 2011/7/9 12:45Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 482


 Re:

(Removed by poster)

 2011/7/9 12:52Profile









 Re:

Thank you JB1968 but according to all I've heard within the last month, I'm NOT SAVED. Only use caps because we can't put words in bold print anymore but that part needed some emphasis.
I'll tell you why I'm not saved according to what I've read in about this last month or so.


1 - I agree with MacArthur's first belief, before he may have altered it - that Jesus became the Son of GOD at the conception. That prior to that - He was Elohim, The Eternal WORD of GOD and is called such in Rev 19 at His return, when He also shall have "a new Name which no man knows". And believe that after the millenial reign - that He once again with be in the same form as One GOD as He was from eternity past. Rev 21:1-7
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government "shall be" upon his shoulder: and his name "shall be" called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, "The everlasting Father", The Prince of Peace.


2 - I believe that there is more than "just believe in Him" required for salvation and see not a few verses that prove otherwise... such as Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
And - Mar 1:23,24 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.


3 - I believe that "Loving GOD and others" is absolutely essential for salvation and "if we love Him we'll keep His Commandments" and by so doing will take up our cross and follow Him, ie. die to self and be "obedient" as He was because He loved Father.


4 - I believe in a premillenial post-trib resurrection of the Saints.


5 - and I believe that if we judge another's salvation too easily that we're in danger of judgment and that if we don't Forgive, that we won't be forgiven.


6 - I don't believe in following the words of men unless what they say can be backed with ample Scripture.
There are things that MacArthur preaches that I like a lot but I'm not Reformed theology .... but do believe that, though I don't like giving "names" to beliefs, that unless He is the LORD over our life and we walk as He did, being led by His Spirit, than we're just using Him as a fire escape. I don't believe in sinless perfection but do feel that part of "following Him" is obedience to live up to the light that we have thus far - that differs from person to person.


7 - I'll leave this one blank and open for someone else to fill in a reason why they can see by now that I'm not saved.


So, I'm wiped out of some people's Book of Life.


Hoped to not take Oracio's thread off track. Will desist now, with a word of thanks for your forebearance.



 2011/7/9 13:39









 Re:

JIG

Renoncer's verses had nothing of the atonement, faith, resurrection etc.

Now I will address your response, (Note: I wrote this before anyone replied, but it addresses your response)

Until Acts, the Bible declared WHAT was going to happen in the redemption of men, but the good news of its happening could not be declared, because it had not happened yet. The WHAT was declared, the WHY and HOW this act of redemption saved anyone was not yet declared. The gospel is the good news found in the declaration of HOW and WHY man can have full assurance of being justified before God. It is good news to be believed, not a way of living, or something that yet needs to be done. It is accomplished in Christ, which is what Paul reveals.

Christ had not even accomplished the redemption until Matthew 28:6 so even good news of the WHAT could not be proclaimed until then, but why and how men were justified by this act of redemption was not revealed until the epistles of Paul, the most detail is given in Romans 4-5 and 1 Cor 15.

The “Gospels” as they are called revealed WHAT had happened, but the WHY and the HOW was left to be revealed by Paul. This is why he refers to what he has revealed as “my gospel”, this is why Romanism despises Paul, this is why every works based religion dwells on scripture outside of the epistles of Paul for their justification, and yes, this is why LS looks elsewhere than the epistles for its justification.


OJ

 2011/7/9 17:45









 Re:

Hia Joe. I don't believe that Paul's Gospel differs from James, Peter's or John's Epistles and Paul does set down obedience, even in Romans 8 - definitely in 1Corth 6:9,10 - Gal 5:21, etc.
That there is something of which to "obey" in every epistle of Paul is indisputable, after one has laid claim to His Name by saying or believing that they are Christians.
The "pressing on" after Salvation in Phil 3:7-15 are some of the dearest verses I've read from Paul - that he of all people would say, "that I may Know Him..." etc.

As I expressed above - I believe that we are to live up to the light that we have - that is what I was taught that "be ye perfect" means.
I also believe that we know that the more light that we have - the more we'll need to live up to and some have for that very reason, cut off their pressing on or pressing in for more light - because they don't Want to live up to any more than their own set limits for their flesh or what they decide they can tolerate of self-denial for the Love of Christ.

I believe that is why we see some new converts almost fly right into amazing depths of understanding and productiveness and others linger on for years in the same unfruitful condition - of no growth from hindering the 'light'. Their lives bearing no fruit and what does Jesus say of those that bear 'no fruit'?
Those who received the light of the way to salvation - grabbed it and were born-again as babes in Christ, but only could go so far with that, because there were things back in that darkness that they left behind that they don't want to part with, so they don't Want anymore "light".

Long story short - I see much in Paul's Epistles that point to obedience and this pressing on/in for more and more of Him. I don't think we need to put names on every belief. I read the OP about "Lordship" and all I get into my mind is a ton of N.T. Scripture about obedience - instead of lawlessness. No longer under O.T. law, but under the Law of The [indwelling] Spirit. Romans 8. Being 'led by the spirit' is merely obedience to the Shepherd's voice of Jn 10. I see it in John's Epistles as well. Don't you?

 2011/7/9 19:01





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