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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Storms Expose the Character of Man

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Jesus-is-God,

Quote:

That is why I get moved to a sort of anger, when I hear anyone praising "science" when it's Godless men's science that plays the major role in what is happening now and will happen, that He will finally come to deal with in Rev 11:18.



Just for clarification's sake: I did not, nor did I read comments from anyone else, that "praise" science. Observing the order of nature and natural phenomenon that God designed is very different from "praising" science.

After all, science in accountable to God and not the other way around.

*EDIT - By the way, I was reminded recently of something while reading through the book of II Chronicles 26 about King Uzziah. In II Chronicles 26:9-15, the Bible says that Uzziah built "engines" (machines) -- designed by skilled men -- that hurled "great stones" and machines to shoot arrows.

Interestingly, Uzziah lived sometime between 750-800 B.C. According to historians, the catapult wasn't readily designed until 399 B.C. (by the Greeks) and the crossbow wasn't designed until the 4th Century B.C. (around 341 B.C.). Yet, the Bible records these machines hundreds of years prior to those dates!

Interesting stuff! I have always wondered why more is not made about this.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/6/4 15:14Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Chris wrote

Quote:
That is stretching much further than the notion that God is omnipotent and that nothing operates outside of His will and control. Of course, such an open-ended suggestion would imply that all evil is controlled by God. This suggestion also implies that Satan is CONTROLLED by God -- not simply by limitations -- but by a motivation that is guided by God.



Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Chris, Maybe you need to read another book in the Bible than Job. Amos for instance.

By the way, the authors of the Bible wrote as moved by the Holy Spirit - not of their own will. What they wrote is God's words not man's. This fact is not open for debate. God said it and I read it.

Jesus-is-God was right about the insurance companies calling it an Act of God. She was also right about everything else she posted.


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Janice

 2011/6/4 16:56Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

All I can say about all this is:

Revelation 21:1-8 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Blessings to all!

 2011/6/4 17:16Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi White_Stone,

Quote:

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Chris, Maybe you need to read another book in the Bible than Job. Amos for instance.

By the way, the authors of the Bible wrote as moved by the Holy Spirit - not of their own will. What they wrote is God's words not man's. This fact is not open for debate. God said it and I read it.



I used the book of Job because it seemed to be the most timely in response to a disaster of this sort.

Moreover, the Book of Job reflects the reasons why I urge caution for men who accuse God of actively creating a tornado to kill people -- including His own believers -- as an act of judgment. Job's friends were quite accusatory about God and guessing the "reasons" for Job's afflictions. This is what appeared to be going on here.

Furthermore, I questioned whether or not that there is ANY anecdote of God killing believers...particularly under this New Covenant that He made with us.

Like I said, there is a difference between God actively causing death and destruction...and God simply allowing it to happen. One implication is active and the other is passive. The proclamations of some here seems to imply that God actively created this tornado as a means of dispensing judgment upon a town (or nation) by specifically destroying 3/4 of the town and killing hundreds of people. I just don't find Scriptures that indicate that this is ALWAYS the case (especially under this New Covenant).

For a while, I was concerned by the rhetoric that some were using descriptively against me because I disagreed with such a conclusion. In these threads, I have been accused of being a deist, on the path of open theism, filling a cup of iniquity, selfish in my prayers, twisting Scriptures and even piling up judgment upon myself. Such rhetoric is frustrating -- because it comes from people who simply have a disagreement about what we believe is the cause behind a single destructive tornado.

And, for a bit, I felt that I might actually be alone in my thinking. However, I am thankful for those who have written in this thread (and other threads) similar thoughts or who have PMed me with some kind words of encouragement.

I am just saddened when there is a disagreement -- or even words of caution uttered -- that people feel the need to vilify or "unspiritualize" those who disagree with them. Moreover, I don't think that some people realize how "off" their rhetoric can be -- even to the point of implying things that are far from the truth (like people here are "praising science").

For the most part, we all agree that God is the omnipotent Creator of this world. Most of us acknowledge that God created certain patterns, laws and order to this world as well. And we can agree that God ALLOWS certain things -- including calamity -- to happen.

The underlying caution that I urge is when men attribute each calamity like this to the active (rather than permissive) undertaking of God. As rbanks said in another thread, I am concerned that some men may charge God foolishly.

Job was afflicted by Satan...but God permitted/allowed it to happen. That is a very different thing than what Job's friends said. They believed that God was judging Job...and they questioned various possible motives for what they considered to be an act of God. God rebuked such thinking in Job chapters 38-42. I have simply urged caution less sincere believers think themselves "knowing" enough to draw similar conclusions.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/6/4 18:00Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

When bad things happen people want to know why it happened, hoping that perhaps a reason can be ascertained and further calamities prevented by us altering our behaviors, if indeed, it was cause by something we did.

But the reality is that God is not obligated to reveal, to justify why He allowed these things to happen, whether it be storms, terminal illness or other calamities that happen outside of man's control.

The dynamics of God's working in the affairs of man, of nature are at best mysterious. Some things do not make sense at all. Consider 1Kings 22:19-23 NASB:

19 Micaiah said, “Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left.

20“The LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that.

21“Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, ‘I will entice him.’

22“The LORD said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.’

23“Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you.”

Since God is under no obligation to gain our approval for his modus operandi, is it not in our best interests to simply trust him, knowing that, indeed, all things work together for good, even when we do not see it at the moment?

It is all about faith and trust, knowing that his ways are mysterious [to us] but always wise and we rely on this fact. And this is the message we have to share with the victims of disasters or afflictions.


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Sandra Miller

 2011/6/4 19:13Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Wow...that is very well put, Sister Ginnyrose.

I think that this is part of the gist from Job...when he repented saying, "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know" (Job 42:3 NASB).

I think that there are some things that are beyond our own understanding. We don't need to know some things...or waste time assigning blame. We must simply maintain trust in Him.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/6/4 19:21Profile





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