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Discussion Forum : General Topics : racist?

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markitats
Member



Joined: 2004/3/12
Posts: 92
Springdale AR

 racist?

Can racist be truly saved and goning to heaven?


_________________
Mark

 2004/12/3 11:55Profile
InigoMontoya
Member



Joined: 2004/5/8
Posts: 62
Michigan

 Re: racist?

Interesting question. If one is racist are they not likely to have a hardened heart, unforgiving attitude, and unchecked hatred? All attributes that should not be held by those who've been regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Yet, I tend to believe that there is a distinction between salvation and saintification. If the person's still alive, he may just be a "work in progress".

Personal opinion only, but I tend to be cautious of declaring someone saved-notsaved. Not saying we shouldn't judge righteously their actions though.


_________________
Daniel

 2004/12/3 12:50Profile
MarKay
Member



Joined: 2004/12/2
Posts: 14
Limerick city,Ireland

 Re: racist?

My view is if someone is racist then they could not
have the Holy spirit in them.That's if they claim to be saved but carry on wilingly been racist.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.-Gal 3:28


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Mark Kenny

 2004/12/3 12:52Profile









 when you say "racist"

do you mean Christian Identity, Aryan Nations member racist, or do you refer to reflexive racism?

I will say without any equivocation that believers in Christian Identity are stone apostates.

 2004/12/3 14:00
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: when you say "racist"

Quote:
do you mean Christian Identity, Aryan Nations member racist, or do you refer to reflexive racism?

I will say without any equivocation that believers in Christian Identity are stone apostates.



Would somebody translate this for me? Some of us foreigners are having a bit of a struggle with the language. ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/12/3 14:09Profile
markitats
Member



Joined: 2004/3/12
Posts: 92
Springdale AR

 Re:

Yes, I’m very confused also. Please clarify your point, neilginl. I’m from America and I’m lost.


_________________
Mark

 2004/12/3 14:26Profile
InigoMontoya
Member



Joined: 2004/5/8
Posts: 62
Michigan

 Re:

Okay, I'm lost too. I "think" he may be making a distinction between racisim thats rather sub-consious and overtly active like the ethnic supremicist groups.


_________________
Daniel

 2004/12/3 16:16Profile
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

No matter who you are, what you've done and where you're in, God can save you.

Why? Because our salvation doesn't depend on what we do or who we are, but on the redemptive work of Jesus on the Cross. Our debt is too big to pay and we can't repay the Lord properly. It's never enough.

Only the blood of Jesus was pleasing to God and enough to cleanse us from [b]all[/b] sin: [i]"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Peter 1:18-19)[/i]

It's so important to keep this in mind, also in answer to your question. It's not about who you are, but what Jesus has done. It's not about what you've done, it's about who Jesus is.

God accepts you as you are, but He refuses to leave you there.

A racist, a drugaddict, a person who is addicted to porn, a "good" and "neat" person...all need the Savior. And after they get saved...the Savior will work out His work in them.

As a Christian we can't continue in sin, but we may stumble and fall many times (although it's not necessary - Judah 24: [i]"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory"[/i])

Although all things have become new (2 Cor 5:17) I often am reminded of the fact that there's something that's called "flesh". I know that the war has been won, but the battle just begun.

I have problems with sin myself. I fail still too many times. But does this mean I'm still a lost sinner? No, I'm saved...but I need to be transformed into the image of Christ more and more. Sin always remains sin. If I sin, I sin against God. And to sin as a Christian is just as bad as to sin as a sinner.

When a racist turns to Christ, He can't remain a racist. That's the way it works. When I turned to Christ, I couldn't continue blaspheming. [i]"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Romans 6:1-3)[/i]. It didn't however mean, that I never used God's name in vain afterwards. [i]"if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:1)[/i]

So...to get to a point.

A racist can truly [b]get[/b] saved, and afterwards he may still have his struggles with this attitude (he/she needs to decide every day to live through the "new" man). Every single day, whether you have problems with an attitude or an act of sin, we have to make the decision to walk in the Spirit. [b]Then[/b] we will not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

When you get born again, you don't get born as a cleaned up racist. You get born as a child of God. You receive a new man, with a new mind, to think new thoughts and to see things in a new perspective and act in a new way and to live a life pleasing to God.

So, to answer [b]that[/b] question. A racist can't [b]be[/b] saved, simply because he isn't a racist anymore. Besides...if a racist claims to be saved and has no problems with his attitude, the question arises if he really is saved. If I watched filth on the internet before I got saved with pleasure, I can't watch it with pleasure anymore...simply because the Holy Ghost convicts me. But just as I still have my struggles to walk in the Spirit and to not watch that filth anymore, a former racist can still have his struggles with racism. And then we come back to the first part...the victory in it doesn't depend on who you are, or what you do, but on who Jesus is and what He has done!

I hope this may give some light to your question. May the Lord bless your heart.

Paul


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Paul

 2004/12/3 16:36Profile









 Re:

Terminology:

The term "Christian Identity" has two distinct meanings:
Anglo-Israelism (a.k.a. British-Israelism): A theological belief that the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic and associated cultures are the racial descendents of the tribes of Israel. Thus, by extension, Americans and Canadians, are composed of the descendents of the ancient Israelites of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).
Racist, Christian-based faith groups: A number of small, psuedo- Christian denominations which have accepted Anglo-Israelism, and grafted it to racist, sexist, anti-communist and homophobic beliefs. They view the Jewish people as descendants of Satan.

the following is from the FBI's 'Megido' report:

"Christian Identity also believes in the inevitability of the end of the world and the Second Coming of Christ. It is believed that these events are part of a cleansing process that is needed before Christ’s kingdom can be established on earth. During this time, Jews and their allies will attempt to destroy the white race using any means available. The result will be a violent and bloody struggle -- a war, in effect -- between God’s forces, the white race, and the forces of evil, the Jews and nonwhites. Significantly, many adherents believe that this will be tied into the coming of the new millennium."

"The view of what Armageddon will be varies among Christian Identity believers. Some contend there will be a race war in which millions will die; others believe that the United Nations, backed by Jewish representatives of the anti-Christ, will take over the country and promote a New World Order. One Christian Identity interpretation is that white Christians have been chosen to watch for signs of the impending war in order to warn others. They are to then physically struggle with the forces of evil against sin and other violations of God’s law (i.e., race-mixing and internationalism); many will perish, and some of God’s chosen will be forced to wear the Mark of the Beast to participate in business and commerce. After the final battle is ended and God’s kingdom is established on earth, only then will the Aryan people be recognized as the one and true Israel."

"Christian Identity adherents believe that God will use his chosen race as his weapons to battle the forces of evil. Christian Identity followers believe they are among those chosen by God to wage this battle during Armageddon and they will be the last line of defense for the white race and Christian America.

 2004/12/3 16:57
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: racist?

First, a question of definition:

Is there Biblical support for the idea of there being more than one human "race"? Are not all humans the descendants of a single couple (Adam and Eve), and thus of a single species?

Or is race here being used as a synonym for "ethnicity", where the distinction can be entirely based on the culture in which one was raised or with which one identifies oneself, rather than any genetic difference (such as the color of one's skin)? Theoretically, identical twins (seperated early in life) could grow up in different cultures and be of different ethinicities, and (if race is merely a synonym to "ethnicity") of different races.

Or does race simply mean "different skin color"?

Assuming the third definition ("different skin color"), I'd have to say that a "racist" (meaning someone with the inclination to view people with certain colors of skin as generally superior to people with other colors of skin) could conceivably continue in that opinion after regeneration, [b]IF[/b] they had been taught that way all along, were ignorant of the facts (possibly having no contact with people of the "inferior" color), and were just going on what they had been taught. God would likely remedy their ignorance before long, however.

On the other hand, if they actually "hate" [b]anyone[/b] in the sense that the Apostle had in mind in 1 John 3:15, then I would take the plain sense of that passage to mean that they "do not have eternal life abiding in them" (i.e. are not saved). This is true whether that sinful hatred is based on the color of the person's skin, the fact that he just cut the "hater" off in traffic, or whatever. I'm not exactly sure of the definition of "hate" that the Apostle had in mind, but I'm thinking something along the lines of "malicious sentiment toward the object; desire against the best interest of the object." Some discussion about that definition may be in order, but I imagine someone's covered it around here (I even vaguely recall talking about the difference between benevolent and complacent love and malicious/non-malicious hatred).

Of course, given the plain sense of the initial question (at least if it's from the same context as I live in) then the answer is "no."

 2004/12/3 17:54Profile





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