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Rahman
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 Catholic Apparitions: St. Malachy, Fatima, Garabandal, and the Death of John Paul II? ...



NOTE: "and the Death of John Paul II" was added on 4/5/05 in light of the pivotal part he played in the alledged prophecies of the apparition at Garabandal, Spain in 1961 ... The original thread title was: Catholic Apparitions: St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal" ...


Nasher's thread regarding "Stigmata & St. Francis of Assisi" ...
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3895&forum=35

... has steeled me to post something i've found fascinating for some time now, that being Catholic prophecy via the visions of St. Malachy, and the Catholic apparition experiences of Fatima and Garabandal? ... Protestant Pentecostalism may have it's prophets, prophecies and visions, but none of them seem to be as dramatic (to me) as those alledged by Catholics, especially the apparitions, and especially that they seem to be had by children ... Please understand i'm not posting this as truth and am calling all "alledged", this is just something that i've found interesting, and have wondered about ... ok?

The Lord for whatever His reason began my initial encounter with Christianity in Kindergarten, at the parish of St. Malachy, and i can tell you that it was there that my real fear of God began ... Catholic nuns and priest back then had very graphic pictures of Satan, hell and tormenting demons that were terrifyingly branding on the mind of a 5 year old, and are still very valid to me today, for they are the pictures i see in my mind when i'm in attempts of convincing a sinner that God will cast them there without Jesus ...

Any how it wasn't until decades later that the Holy Spirit revealed to me just who my childhood parish was named for ... St. Malachy, a 12th century Irish Catholic priest who had visions, his most famous being that he alledgedly predicted that from his lifetime there would only be 112 popes, with the present pope being the 110, and most interesting that the final 2 popes would reigh during the end time ...

Prophecy of St Malachy
http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

Now i found the Fatima research very interesting and it raised such questions in my mind as, "Could they be from God, and if so would He appear as the virgin Mary"? ... i would think that to most Protestants the answer would be a resounding, "No"! ... Now i myself do believe that God meets folk where they are often, but on my afore mentioned questions i have to say that "i don't know for sure" ... But what strikes me is that if the apparitions are from the devil, then why do they say such harsh things against the Catholic church, and it's clergy? ...

Anyway about 20 years ago i came across a Catholic apparition experience that happened in 1961 in a little hamlet named Garabandal in Spain, and it popped up again in my mind because of Nasher's post so i search engined it and came up with something even more interesting .... Now i find this even more interesting because as with none of the other Catholic prophecies it locked itself into our lifetime by it's predictions being fulfilled in the lifetime of the present Pope ... In other words the now 56 years old Ms. Gonzales stands to shortly either be vindicated in her apparitional experience, or be exposed as a complete fraud ... As with all prophecy, time will tell ...

Excerpt from The Three Popes and Garabandal
http://www.ourlady.ca/info/popesUpdate.htm

"During the Garabandal apparitions, there were some remarkable revelations made concerning the papacy. When the Garabandal events began in June of 1961, John XXIII was Pope. He died on June 3, 1963. When the bells tolled in the village church of Garabandal on the day Pope John died, Conchita said to her mother, Aniceta, "The Pope is dead. Now there will be only three more." Aniceta reproved her, "How do you know that? Why do you say such silly things?" Conchita answered, "The Virgin told it to me." When asked by another person what it meant, if it meant the end of the world, she replied, "I don't know what will happen, only that three Popes remain."

There is one other revelation made at Garabandal about the papacy. Our Lady told Conchita that the last Pope "will see the Miracle from wherever he is." Since John Paul II is the third Pope, he automatically becomes the one to whom this prophecy refers. And while we don't know the date of the Miracle—Conchita, who does know, will reveal it eight days in advance—what we do know is that it will occur within John Paul's lifetime. Taking into consideration his age and state of health, it would seem that it is not far off. May we prepare ourselves for this long-awaited supernatural event and the Aviso (Warning) that will precede it by living the Message".


For anyone interested the following is an interview done some 20 years later with Conchita Gonzalez, the major of the four little girls who recieved the alledged apparition/prophecy ...

Video 1 - "John Paul II and the Prophesies of Garabandal" (4 Part Documentary)
Video 2 - "Conchita Speaks" (1972 INTERVIEW)
Video 3 - "The Eyewitnesses"
http://www.stjosephpublications.com/contents.htm

GARABANDAL - After The Visions (1981)
Provocative video/audio interview with Conchita Gonzalez (Keena) now 32, wife and mother, in New York. Her thoughts on past and future Garabandal events, she was 12 when she recieved her visions.
http://www.garabandal.us/prophecies.html

THE MESSAGE OF GARABANDAL
http://garabandalny.com/message.html#

http://www.garabandal.us/movies/every_man/every_man.htm


 2004/12/3 9:56Profile
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 Re: St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal? ...

Quote:
St. Malachy, a 12th century Irish Catholic priest who had visions, his most famous being that he alledgedly predicted that from his lifetime there would only be 112 popes, with the present pope being the 110, and most interesting that the final 2 popes would reigh during the end time ...


The problem in my mind to accept any prophecies from people involved heavily popery which is in spurgeons words a very "devilish abomination" in the nostrils of God. There are forsure people who are genuinely born-again within Catholism but a majority that are decieved under the traditions of men that make the power of God to none-effect.

For people to read into these things is very dangerous and vering very far off the foundation of Christ. The instution of the "pope" is unscriptural and something that is not under the econonmy of God for the church. The countless millions of saints that were killed and their blood shed for a true profession of Christ should tell us enough about this harlot called the catholic church.


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 2004/12/3 10:07Profile
Rahman
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 Re: St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal? ...




Brother Greg,

i agree with you 100% ... which is why i've found it so interesting that these alleged Catholic apparitions seem to occur primarily with young children, and often times brings such scathing accusation against the Catholic Church, and it's clergy (as in this most recent Garabandal experience), and therefore has made me wonder just who is behind such occurences ... Is it satan, or is it God, for it all sounds far to complex for four twelve year olds to not only orchestrate, but pull off? ... Sound like a house divided ...

Again i'm not promoting this as truth, but as a past interest that Nasher's post brought back to my memory that has caused me to find out something now that i didn't know then, that being that none of the other Catholic apparitional phenomena has locked itself into our present time frame by it's predictions supposedly to come to fulfilment in the lifetime of the present Pope ... That's a first, which i think it's disproving will be as devestating to alledged Catholic apparitional experiences as priest pedophilia has been to the Catholic Church to date...

Mrs. Gonzalez (Keena) stated something very interesting (to me) in her 1981 interview ... She said that she was afraid of her prophecy not coming true because she'd then become known as a total fraud, but then said that she was more afraid of it becoming true because then it would be best that her children had never been born ... No one else might believe her claims, but Ms. Gonzalez certainly seems to, and apparently it still haunts her life to the point of fear for her children ... i personally find that most interesting ...

 2004/12/3 11:32Profile
Rahman
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 Re: Catholic Apparitions: St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal? ...


As i stated i do find Nostradamus, St. Malachy, Fatima & Garabandal most interesting in the sense of why do such occurences happen and especially so as to who's behind them and why? ... i've asked myself are some the actual revealing work of a special outpouring of God's Spirit (perhaps in Malachy's case), or are they mostly, if not all, satan's fooling of transforming himself into an angel of light? ... In reading Nostradamus i found it to be particularly murky with the exception of his assessment with Malachy that the last pope "Peter the Roman" would reign at the same time as anti-christ ... But it should also be noted that in one of the quatrains specifically believed to refer to John Paul II's death it states that "he would be killed in France" ... Such is not the case and time has certainly relegated that to the false prediction heap ... As with all prophecies time will tell, and the only ones that we can totally count on as truth even before they happen are all recorded in the infallible Word of God ...

i once concidered that God might appear to some folk where they were in their faith experience, but anymore i cannot see where God would appear, or even allow any angel in His service to appear as The Blessed Mother, as in Fatima and Garabandal, when such promotion of Mary worship is contrary to His Word ... And most recently i've also come to the conclusion that in order to restrain His judgment upon the world that God would not advance the solution as in Fatima and Garabanda, as to Catholics stepping up their prayer of the Rosary when that's not scriptural either ... My (personal) conclusion now on Catholic apparitions is that satan has mixed just enough light (stating that God's not pleased with the state of the world) into his darkness (the solution is to become better Catholics) to keep said Catholics inslaved to the Church of Rome's unscriptural methodologies ... i think that their are things that satan percieves as harrowingly imminent to himself because he's in the actual invisible realm where all that's most real is happening ... Rev.12:12 says, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" ... Well i think it's safe to say that after almost 2,000 years since Christ's death satan sees his time as a whole lot shorter now, which is obvious to me by his increasing wrath being metted out upon mankind ...

The Garabandal apparitions had been especially interesting to me in that they happened in my lifetime (1961), were video taped as they occured, and the lead visionary (Conchita) tied the occurence of what she called "the warning in the sky that all would see" to the lifetime of the now deceased John Paul II, whereas she in fact stated that John Paul II would see this global warning: quote; "from where ever he is" ... Well i think that time via John Paul's death has pretty much shot Conchita's vision/apparition/prophecy thru as total fallacy ... i wonder how many satan has disillusioned to despair with the coming and going of such a long held onto belief of Garabandal by many Catholics ... It's also interesting to me that the Garabandal experience alleged John Paul II to be the last pope, while Malachy alledgedly prophesied that there are two more after him ...

What is my conclusion now as to the title of this thread? ... MORE CONFUSION ON TOP OF CONFUSION! ... BABEL! ... But the Word clearly states ...

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints" - 1Cor.14:33 ...

Bottom line is the end will come when God the Father says to Christ, "Son this is the day and the hour", and in the meanwhile all us saints putting our trust in Christ alone should be living like that time could be the very next second when it comes to our holiness of living ... Many of us may wanna make nice-nice with Catholics as far as their being fellow saints but truth be told if so they're fellow saints in major doctrinal error and if we love them then out of love we need to be about unabashedly telling them what Christ said in scripture ...

"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." - Rev.18:1-4 ...

This sounds like sage scriptural advice for all saints PAST, PRESENT & FUTURE! ...




 2005/4/3 15:19Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
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 Re: Let God be Found True ...



Here's another thought that came to me as i was pondering the reasons behind Catholic apparitional prophecies ... We all know that satan copies everything that God does ... i believe that many of the vision(s) and prophecies that come forth from the saints in evangelical/pentecostal circles regarding "words" of impending chastisement are true, and are designed by God to give us a chance to voluntarily galvanize back to a more perfect fear of Him via repentance and a return to purer worship and holiness of living which scripture shows (as with Nineveh) does stay the hand of His terrible grace ... Well i now think satan does the same thing in Catholic circles to galvanize Catholics back to what they percieve as a more perfect fear of the Lord by retrenching even more stridently into the doctinal ways of error of The Church of Rome ... The former fear being God's way of attempting to drive we Protestants out of our heretical errors, the latter fear being satan's way of driving Catholics even further into their heritical error ...

Another thing that has struck me even more since the Popes death is all of the pomp, ritual and circumstance attached to The Church of Rome, and all of the oppulence and materialism there as well ... Then i flicked thru Christian TV and on many instances arrived just in time to hear someone say "plant a seed here and God will ..." or "send your love gift here and God will ..." and have become even more convinced that the only difference between apostate Catholicism and apostate Protestantism is that The Church of Rome is full of Medival "mammon" and so much of Protestanism has become full of Modern "mammon", but both are guilty of attemting to serve God and mammon at the same time ... In The Church of Rome totally, and in far to much of Protestantism the wicked spirits of Balaam, Nicolaus and Jezebel has crept in lording over, false prophesying, and misleading so many Christians to secumb under, follow hard after and to lie in beds of spiritual fornication ... What have we all as mankind become guilty of in our disfigurement of the simplicity of our Christ and His Gospel of "lighter yoke" grace ... To me there ain't nothing "light" about the type of so much so called Christianity going forth today ... It's heavy, burdensome and costly with all of the formulas, gimmicks and theatrics that have become attached to it, as brother Wilkerson stated in his message "Walking in The Spirt", producing man made special effects to give suggestion of the presence of Holy Spirit ... It's any wonder that such perpertrators are not struck dead on the spot in such blasphemy, and i'll not be surprised when even that begins to transpire ...

So if in fact as we Protestants are so quickly to brag about, in comparison of ourselves to Catholics, are God's true Church, the one that He chastises because of His great love for us, the one that He intends to bring to Himself as having neither spot nor wrinkle, then we'd best know that judgment must begin with us "first" if we keep on in our habitual error, refusing to voluntarily get right with Jesus! ... Our God is so good in that He sends "warners" anyway even tho He already knows the the "warnings" will not be heeded by most, and that it will require His terrible grace to fall upon us to cleanse us from "our way" and put us aright again to His own "perfect way" ... Praise Him that unlike satan's prophecies His are not empty lies that will eventually leave its believer discarded upon the trash heap of disappointment ...

 2005/4/4 10:54Profile
Rahman
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 Re: THE BACK PEDDLING BEGINS ...



i got this via e-mail this morning from ...

Subject: A Message from Joey Lomangino
message@garabandalny.org

Joey Lomangino is a blind man who became deeply affiliated with the Garabandal apparition and very close friends with it's chief spokes person Conchita, who told him that after "the warning in the sky" that all would see in the lifetime of John Paul II, that the miracle that would occur soon after at "the pines" in the village of Garabandal itself Joey would recieve new eyes ...

Joey's way up in age now and i wondered what would be his reaction to the Pope's passing without Conchita's prediction coming true? ... i didn't have to wait long ... As with so many prophecies that fail to come true in the time frame as predicted both the predictor (tho at this point still silent) and the adherents (such as Joey) to such predictions begin to what i call "back peddal" ... They start making excuses and/or come up with all kinds of reasonings that they must have somehow missed ... That's what this e-mail of explanation sounds like to me ...



April 4, 2005

Dear Friends,

The life and mission of Pope John Paul II on earth ended in Rome on April 2, 2005.

We felt both deep sadness and great joy when we heard that Pope John Paul II had whispered his last “Amen”. This Pope has touched the lives of many
millions. Our own family had the privilege of receiving his blessing in 1989 in Rome, a moment we will never forget.

For those interested in the Garabandal prophecy tied to the passing of this Pope, our website http://www.garabandal.us/prph_lastpope.html features the article “John Paul II – Is He the Last Pope?” by Fr. Francois Turner published in Garabandal Magazine (1972-2002) by the Workers of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in New York. This article contains one of the earliest and most prudent reflections on the prophecy by a priest. Fr. Turner (RIP), an expert on Garabandal, was known as a man of intellect, candor and accuracy. Like many of the events surrounding the Garabandal apparitions, he knew
this prophecy would not be thoroughly understood until viewed with hindsight after the events of Garabandal, including the Warning and Miracle, had concluded. Fr. Turner did not personally foresee the end of the papacy as we know it, only that the end of this papacy would mark the change of the era, “the end of the present period” (el fin de los tiempos).

Father Turner’s is the best and most valid explanation of many written on this subject. Please remember, we do not verify statements published in other magazines. Those who are interested should request verification
directly by email or letter from the author of the article. We cannot confirm statements made in private conversations by any of the visionaries and do not endorse speculation.

Now, as John Paul II enters his eternal reward, we thank God for him and pray for his eternal rest. As was announced, John Paul II will be buried at Saint Peter’s in Rome on Friday April 8, 2005. Already the Cardinals are assembling in Rome and following the Pope’s burial, the process will begin to choose the 265th Pope. Remember every day to offer your masses and
rosaries for the man soon to be chosen to follow John Paul II as the next successor to St. Peter.

Lots of Love,

Joey



It's interesting to note that this e-mail addresses only Conchita's saying that John Paul II was the last pope of the era (whatever that means as no explanation is available), and not the fact that this alledged seer also stated that "the warning" was to occur in John Paul ii's lifetime and he's now dead ... Hmmmm ... i wonder if since this was a news documentary at the time of it's occurnce, and my having caught it again just last week on a History channel documentary on Catholic apparitions, if it will become news worthy again?

i sent an e-mail to Joey in this regard to see if i get an answer ... if i do i'll post it ...

 2005/4/5 9:53Profile
Rahman
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 Re: BACK PEDDLING 2 ...


The ???'s must be rolling in ...


AN ATTEMPT AT CLARIFICATION ...
http://www.garabandal.com/

An excerpt;

THE THREE POPES AND GARABANDAL:Revisited
By: Geoffrey A. P.Groesbeck


For many years, some of Garabandal’s most prominent promoters have theorized that Pope John Paul II’s reign will see the end of the times. Although plausible, this scenario is not necessarily so.

One of the more startling prophecies of Garabandal concerns the three popes who have followed Blessed Pope John XXIII (1958-1963), and especially the last of the three: our current pontiff, John Paul II (1978-present). Our present pope supposedly will witness the great miracle at Garabandal, and the end of his reign supposedly will usher in “the end of the times” (el fin de los tiempos, in the original Spanish).

The careful reader will note the use of the adjective “supposedly” twice in the previous sentence. This is deliberate. While one can speculate that Pope John Paul II may indeed be the pope who will witness the miracle, it is just that, speculation. It may be that he will see it, yet it also may be for another to see it. We simply do not know.

What is certain, however, is that by the end of the current pope’s reign — whenever that may be — a very definite end of the present times, or “era”, will have occurred. In fact, one can argue convincingly that this time already has come, a point that will be addressed in more detail in the second part of this article.

But first, let us turn to the aspect of the prophecy that deals with the pope seeing the miracle. That we do not know for certain if it will be Pope John Paul II or not surely needs to be underscored. For many years, some of Garabandal’s most prominent promoters have linked the pope who will see it as the one whose reign will see the end of the times. Although plausible, this scenario is not necessarily so.


THE ORIGINAL DIALOGUE

To understand the matter better, we need first go back and visit the events as they unfolded in time and in their proper context. A careful reading of the dialogue as originally related by Conchita yields some very interesting information, which in its subtlety easily can be confused. For this, we first turn to the original Spanish text, as it appears in Se Fue con Prisas a la Montaña, the Spanish-language predecessor to She Went in Haste to the Mountain.

On 3 June 1963 — the day of the passing of Pope John XXIII — after learning that the village bells were tolling for the pope, Conchita made a startling remark to her mother Aniceta: “For sure…now there remain no more than three [popes]!” (Seguramente… Pues, ¡ya no quedan más que tres!)1 Amazingly, although this was the first time that Aniceta had heard this announcement, it appears that Conchita had made mention of this more than six months earlier to others. She perhaps first was told this on 20 December 1962, as indicated by a letter that Conchita’s aunt Maximina sent to friends that same day.2

Naturally, Aniceta was shocked, and asked if this meant the end of the world was approaching (quiere decir que viene ya el fin del mundo?). Conchita’s response was that the Virgin did not say “the end of the world”, but rather “the end of the times”. Further, after being asked if these two were not the same, she answered only: “Well, I don’t know that.” (Pués, no lo sé.)3

Subsequent recorded comments by Conchita on the matter are few. We know that a few days later (probably 5 June) she mentioned three times to three women that there would be only three more popes (digo también que ya sólo quedan tres Papas)4, after which would come “the end of the times”. Here she added that, again, she did not know what this enigmatic phrase meant.5 At least four other times Conchita repeated this statement (once to no less eminent a personage than Fr. Lucio Rodrigo, then a professor of moral theology at the Pontifical University at Comillas).

One person to whom Conchita repeated this message was Mother María des Nieves de García, the headmistress of the school Conchita attended briefly in Burgos. In this conversation, which took place on 1 November 1966, instead of noting that she did not know whether “the end of the times” was the equivalent of “the end of [all] time”, Conchita drew a finer distinction.

According to Mother des Nieves’ own notes, Conchita earlier had asked the Virgin if these two events would be one and the same. The reply was emphatically that they would not be. Specifically, the Virgin mentioned that there would be two more popes after the then-current pontiff (Paul VI, 1963-1978), and then the end of the times.6 We do not know when Conchita was told this, except that it obviously was after Paul VI had been made pope. John Paul I and Cardinal Karol Wojtyla, who was to become Pope John Paul II.


LATER COMMENTS AND CONFUSION

Since the last of these early conversations with others, we do not know whether additional comments have been made by Conchita on the matter. However, if any had been made, it seems likely they would have been disseminated quickly amongst the Garabandal community. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, it therefore seems safe to say that Conchita’s remarks as recorded by her former headmistress (and others) 37 years ago hold true, and with nothing new added to them. If so, we can state with assurance at least the following:

1. Pope John Paul II is the last of the explicitly referenced three remaining popes subsequent to Blessed Pope John XXIII.

2. The end of the times — but not the end of time itself — will coincide with the end of the present pope’s pontificate.

That “the end of the times” is a momentous benchmark of some sort is obvious. One anecdotal suggestion of just how seriously Conchita takes this prophecy is revealed by her reaction upon hearing of the death of Pope John Paul I, whose brief reign of 36 days ended on 28 September 1978. An acquaintance of hers, with her on that same day, noted that the visionary became visibly agitated after hearing the news of the pontiff’s passing.7 Surely, that John Paul I’s death would provoke such a strong reaction is not something to be taken lightly.

On the other hand, in an attempt to buttress a belief that the present pope will be the last one (and in this case, of all time), some have attempted to link — erroneously — Conchita’s comments with the so-called prophecies of St. Malachi (Malachy), an eleventh-century Irish monk. Yet as is known to many by now, there is no connexion whatsoever. The alleged predictions of St. Malachy are in fact spurious, the work of a Belgian monk, Arnold de Wion (or de Wyon), who wrote them six centuries after their supposed author died.8


Pope Paul VI with Cardinal Albino Luciani, who was to become Pope John Paul I.


AN ATTEMPT AT CLARIFICATION

Where, then, does the prediction that a pope will see the miracle come from, and can we claim to know which pope it is who will see it?

According to Fr. García de Pesquera9, sometime in September of 1962, Conchita made the statement that the pope — whoever it would be at that time — would see the miracle to come, whether he was in Garabandal or elsewhere. This prediction was made roughly three months before the Virgin told her of the three remaining popes. It is interesting to note that the Blessed Mother did not say in this earlier dialogue that the pope who would see the miracle also would be the last of the three popes to follow then-Pope John XXIII.

Similarly, we note with equal interest that in the apparition of December that same year, the Virgin made no mention of the third (or any) pope seeing the miracle. In other words, her comments regarding a pope seeing the miracle were delivered in September of 1962, with no reference to who that pope would be. And in her later utterances regarding the number of remaining popes, no mention was made of one of them being the one who would see the miracle.

From this, a number of conclusions arise, amongst them the possibility that any future pope could see — or could have seen — the miracle. This would include popes Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, or anyone who follows (assuming a successor to the current pontiff is elected).

It is probably safe to say that neither Paul VI nor John Paul I saw the miracle, as surely some mention would have been made of it. We know, of course, that Fr. Luís Andreu and St. Pio saw the miracle, but assume that no one else has seen it, including any pontiff. If Pope John Paul II is to be the last pope of all time, it would be a logical necessity that he would see the miracle. If, however, he is not the last pope, but instead the last pope of the[se] times, it does not follow that he must ipso facto be the pope to witness the miracle.

So do we have a right to infer that our beloved pope, John Paul II, will see the miracle? In fact, we do not. Again, it may seem plausible, but there is no direct link between the miracle to come in Garabandal and which pope will see it.

To support this, we turn again to She Went in Haste to the Mountain. On page 486, there is a very important sentence written in 1963 by Fr. Luís Lopez Retenaga, as a summation of what was definitively known regarding who this pope will be: “The Virgin did not say specifically which pope.”10


WHAT WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN

To the above two conclusions can be added the following third one.
l There will be a pope who will see the miracle to come.

It seems beyond all doubt that neither popes Paul VI nor John Paul I saw the miracle, which leaves the current pontiff…or a successor…as the one who will see it. But what we still cannot say is whether John Paul II will be the pope to see the miracle.

The temptation to do so is admittedly strong. After all, if he is the third pope after Blessed Pope John XXIII, some say, then he is the chosen pope. But this does not follow from Conchita’s words. All we know for certain is that a pope will see the miracle.

We can combine this certainty with the fact that the current pope’s reign marks “the end of the times”, a phrase that can mean many things, as will be discussed later. But we cannot say that therefore this pope must also be the one who will see the miracle, because we do not know whether there will be another pope after “the end of the times”.

If, as seems likely, there will be a successor to Pope John Paul II, this means only that the current pope’s reign will see the termination of a certain epoch (i.e., “the end of the times”). It does not mean that he will see the miracle, any more than it means he will be the last pope ever.

The crucial point is that the phrase “last pope” is inextricably linked with “the end of the times”. This is nothing more than a re-stating of our original two conclusions. And if the end of the times means an end to a specific era or epoch (as García de Pesquera and others argue11), and not an end to time in an eschatological sense, there is no contradiction in saying either that there may be a successor pontiff and therefore that another would see the miracle instead of the present pope.

 2005/4/5 12:28Profile





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