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rainydaygirl
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Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Does the Bible speak to this matter

I have a question and it has come up because of all this talk about the end times and Jesus coming. My question is concerning little children? If a child is so young that they are not able to understand who Jesus is and that they are sinners God has plan for them right?? Same for those who are challenged mentally? Jesus wanted the little to children to come to Him. Also when a person dies as a child they go to be with the Lord are they still as a little child... Is there any where in the Bible that speaks to this topic?

rdg

 2011/5/21 16:51Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Does the Bible speak to this matter

I cannot think of any place that speaks directly to this subject, but Paul did say something in Romans 7 and in Romans 5 that might apply.

Quote:
Rom 7:8-9 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Quote:
Rom 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.



When a child is born we know from the Word that they are born into sin inherited so to speak as the consequence of the sin of the original man Adam. So, children are subject to death in the physical realm. However Paul tells us that sin is not imputed where there is no law. He tells us that he was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came sin revived and he died. I believe this applicable to what is commonly referred to as the age of accountability. There is a time in a person's life when he or she is capable of understanding that their actions are against the laws of God. In other words there comes a knowledge or awareness of sin. This age is different for every individual and in some extreme cases never comes such as in the case of extreme mental retardation. When the child reaches this age I believe he or she will have to account for sins. Before that age I believe sin will not be imputed or held to their account.


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Travis

 2011/5/21 17:02Profile
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re: Age of accountability?

"for without the law sin was dead"

Is it possible the law that Saul once lived by (before regeneration) thinking it was life, became death to him upon Christ revealing Himself to Saul?

I am also trying to get my mind around teaching my child who has stolen something, that although he has broken a commandment which he has been taught is a sin against God, he is not accountable for it because he has yet to reach the age of accountability. Or do I hide this from him so as to not encourage him to sin even more since the only consequence will be my correction?

What of promoting abortion? If every mom is assured that any child they abort is guaranteed eternal life then why sweat the decision? Yes God gives life and takes it away but now the mom can guarantee eternal life to her child by electing abortion. Sure it may place her in possible danger but many a mom might sacrifice herself for the eternity of her child.

There are some places our minds just will not go. We see justice and love through our eyes and expect God to see the same way. Yet how many children survived the flood? How many parents have lost a little child? It is difficult to even talk of such things and our solice is in Him. I know that God not only does good but He defines the term for it is because of Him that we know what good is. So I do not take any of this lightly. There seem to be more questions than understandable answers. I am a man. He is God!

 2011/5/21 19:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am also trying to get my mind around teaching my child who has stolen something, that although he has broken a commandment which he has been taught is a sin against God, he is not accountable for it because he has yet to reach the age of accountability. Or do I hide this from him so as to not encourage him to sin even more since the only consequence will be my correction?



Lylewise,

I would not get too technical with a young child. There is time enough for that later and as it states in Ecclesiastes, there is a time for every matter under the sun. I would simply teach your young child about forgiveness and restoration instead, at this time. There is great danger in teaching a child that they are supposedly not accountable for something or anything they do because they have not reached some invisible line of accountability. Besides, only God knows truly when that line is crossed.

 2011/5/21 20:00
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

lylewise

Quote:
There seem to be more questions than understandable answers. I am a man. He is God!



Very true He is God! I do not understand many things but I know He in His wisdom is in control so maybe this is a topic better left for now.

rdg

 2011/5/21 21:15Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
What of promoting abortion? If every mom is assured that any child they abort is guaranteed eternal life then why sweat the decision? Yes God gives life and takes it away but now the mom can guarantee eternal life to her child by electing abortion. Sure it may place her in possible danger but many a mom might sacrifice herself for the eternity of her child.



Lyle, in my fifteen years as a counselor at a Crises Pregnancy Center, this concept has never come up for discussion by a female who was wanting to abort her child. For those who did and who now suffer from Post-Abortion Syndrome, this idea gives little comfort. They are so ridden with guilt of having their child killed. One time when a female was working to get my approval to abort her baby, I asked her whether she has any other children. She said she did. Then I asked why she just doesn't go ahead and kill one of those? She was mortified at this idea. I let this idea register in her emotions for a while and then told her that killing an unborn child is no different.

(There used to be a book available by Focus on the Family titled "Tillie" which deals with this issue. A good read IMO, but have heard criticisms of it as well.)

Lyle, while your comment is logical, most females who opt for an abortion do not think logically - they think emotionally. Big difference.

Just thought I would share with you a little of my experience in dealing with pro-abort clients.

Blessings.


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Sandra Miller

 2011/5/21 21:38Profile
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re: the age of accountability

Please have patience with my poor execution in communicating as I do seem to fail often in relaying my thoughts properly. Rainydaygirl asked a very poignant question and I wish the answer came easy but I too see it as difficult and perplexing. Shaking my faith? No! Very Difficult? Yes! Is it a good pursuit? Probably, as it most likely brings one to their knees. Twayneb,CyAn, and ginnyrose, you have addressed these things seeking my good and what glorifies our Lord. I would like to explain what I said a little better in hopes that the thread brings in others with light from the Spirit that my add to our understanding. No defense on my part for I am new to Chirst and have so much to learn, but these are questions that I have asked also.

As for what was said by the Apostle Paul in Twaynebs response, I was trying to identify the timing of the law which Paul speaks to as being death once it became a reality to him. What I meant to do was ask when did this occur? Did Paul recognize the law as death to Him as a teen, or as a young man, or as Pharisee of Pharisees? It seems in his pursuit which would find him even tracking down the bride for her slaughter, he saw the law as life to him. Not until he received sight did he see the eventual futility and death depending upon himself to follow it for his salvation. Ignorance until being given sight. Sight coming right after having received a greater dose of blindness? Spiritual sight, that comes from regeneration.
When was Paul saying he was accountable? That was my question?

The only way I as a Christian can effectively train my son accountability is to first make him accountable to God. So from the earliest point of childhood I begin that process. How then when he understands (and he does understand as a young child who is trained this way) that he has first sinned against God does he receive a pass until a supposed later age that will bring about what he already knows? With that being the case does does it benefit the child to hold off this accountability until they achieve a greater level of understanding and reasoning? That was the question in order to spark the greater conversation and question our logic.

Ginnyrose, there is for me, no greater issue that stands before us short of Christ's recognition and obeisance, than abortion. Your efforts in it will be judged, rewarded, and the crowns given will be radiated at Jesus's feet by the glory of the Lord that ever flows from Christ our God. When scripture speaks to orphans can there be a greater orphaned group than these? To have counseled the moms who have been abandon by men is to have cared for the widow in form. To have have cared for the God designed miracle inside the mom is to have cared for the one (orphan) who would be soon abandoned and killed.

How does God consider these little ones? I would prefer to understand it the way I would reason it, but is my reasoning like His? This is where I was concerned that we could err in forming a doctrine from what has so little light shed upon it. It may not supply the greatest comfort at times and it may not give us the consolation we desire that could be passed onto others but at least it will not be abused and used to support a lie that so easily would be the ammunition of the evil one. This was the concern, not the wrong it presented the care center, rather the tool it provides the abortion clinic counselor who would use it to propagate and perpetuate this terrible evil.

I do hope that others will respond to the questions the original poster posed.

 2011/5/22 17:22Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Does the Bible speak to this matter


Quote:
lylewise wrote:
What of promoting abortion? If every mom is assured that any child they abort is guaranteed eternal life then why sweat the decision? Yes God gives life and takes it away but now the mom can guarantee eternal life to her child by electing abortion. Sure it may place her in possible danger but many a mom might sacrifice herself for the eternity of her child.


Say what? This is the first time that I’ve heard this scenario! Is this a true scenario or just an argument someone has made up? Do you know someone who has actually said this? I’d really like to know. Let me ask you, have you ever heard of a mother being so UNselfish that she will abort her unborn baby to make sure he/she goes to heaven? That’s a stretch! Taking another life for the betterment of your life seems to me is pure selfishness.

I’m just looking at the root cause of abortion NOT the persons who get abortions; I have mercy towards those who’ve gotten abortions and I cannot judge them, the Lord is their judge not me. I am there to reconcile them to Christ and I cannot if I’m condemning them. So just thinking this through it seems that there are many reasons and roads that cause an abortion but all roads lead to ‘selfishness,” not being UNselfish. Did that make sense? I hope so, I tried!

Quote:
lylewise wrote:
There seem to be more questions than understandable answers. I am a man. He is God!


I think you answered your own ponderings!! We are mere human beings and HE alone is God and can do what pleases Him!

God bless you brother,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2011/5/22 18:33Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Does the Bible speak to this matter


Quote:
rainydaygirl wrote:
My question is concerning little children? If a child is so young that they are not able to understand who Jesus is and that they are sinners God has plan for them right?? Same for those who are challenged mentally? Jesus wanted the little to children to come to Him. Also when a person dies as a child they go to be with the Lord are they still as a little child... Is there any where in the Bible that speaks to this topic?


I think it’s in many places!! Romans 4.15 says, (my paraphrase...) Where there is no law there is no sin. (Actual verse: for where no law is, there is no transgression.) AND in Romans 5.13 it says, “(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” And in 1 John 3:4 it says plainly that “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.”

How can a child commit sin or transgress the law if it doesn’t even know what the law is?

Sometimes I think we put too much effort into analyzing these things. Yes, Jesus said, “You must be born again,” but He was talking to an adult Pharisee who knew every single aspect of the Law, Jesus was not talking to a child. To all the children, He said that the kingdom of God belongs to them (Mark 10.14; Luke 18.16). Period!!

I think children are always safe and I do not know when the age of accountability is, if that’s what you might be hinting at (and I’m not arguing that can of worms!!), I simply don’t believe in it. I trust God to know when someone’s time is cut off; it’s not for me to know and I can live with that! My mind's made up, I’m going to love them all!! In the name of Jesus!

God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2011/5/22 19:03Profile
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

Quote:
I think children are always safe and I do not know when the age of accountability is, if that’s what you might be hinting at (and I’m not arguing that can of worms!!),



Lisa, I was not hinting at anything just trying to ask a question and understand what the Bible says on the matter. I also was not trying to get anyone to arguing. I realize there are some topics that we will not understand and I don't have to understand,He is God and His ways are just. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this.

rdg

 2011/5/23 7:40Profile





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