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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Lazy people are not Christians...

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warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Lazy people are not Christians...

I know this may open some cans, but I have been thinking for some time about this, and want some of your inputs.

A lot of people like to trivialize certain sins. They even laugh at the fact that certain sins are committed by certain people. Others are apathetic to the fact that these trival sins are not that trivial. One of those sins in particular that I wish to discuss is laziness. Some portions of scripture call it slothfulness, drowsiness, and sluggardness (KJV).

Because of the testimony of scripture regarding this specific topic, I have noticed that there is a contradiction between the nature of godliness and laziness. I have read sermons that say a similar thing when it comes to those that are lazy. That to me expresses that a person cannot call themselves a Christian and continue to be a lazy person. I mean, no one seems to laugh when someone says that they are a pretty adulterous person, nor would they just blow it off as if it were ok to be such and be a christian. So why when do the same concerning laziness (that is not my question)?

So I have two questions, the first I am pretty set on, but desire some extra input, and the second I am debating still. 1. Can a person be saved yet continually lazy? 2. Should we tell a professing believer how sinful it is to be lazy just as much as we would would tell them that lying or adultery is? Part B to that question is, can we tell somone they are lost if they exhibit continual laziness?

So I guess there are three questions. Please do not answer without giving some kind of scripture to back up your statements. If you disagree or agree, reference something from scripture as to how you drew your conclusion. Thank you very much fam.

 2011/5/19 11:22Profile









 Re: Lazy people are not Christians...

Maybe, instead of just wanting to put them in the "saved" or "unsaved" bucket, (which often makes us feel better), it would be a Godly thing to get to know them and see if there is some attack on their life or "root" from their past that is keeping them from being "whole" in Jesus.

Roots can be bitterness, unforgiveness, rejection, fear of failure, etc., etc. It seems the list is endless sometimes.

We all have "giants in the land" that we need to deal with. Some people's giants are more evident than others and so they can be easy "targets".

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

There is always a spiritual problem behind what we see with our eyes and hear with out ears.

Neh 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

One of the functions of the Body of Christ, is to help each other (looking at things from a spiritual point of view), bearing one another's burdens, which can take many forms (prayer and intercession, personal ministry such as talking to them and helping them see things in their life that they are blind to, encouraging them to forgive and renounce the hidden things of darkness, etc.) For instance, they could have a serious sin in their life such as lust and pornography (which makes men passive and irresponsible) and you could be instrumental in helping restore them to the Lord.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

A777

P.S. Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 1:21-23

 2011/5/19 12:01
DesertRose
Member



Joined: 2007/8/8
Posts: 123
Boston.MA

 Re: Lazy people are not Christians...

I agree A777.

The following article may be helpful as well:

"What does the Bible say about laziness?"

Newton’s first law of motion states that an object in motion tends to remain in motion, and an object at rest tends to remain at rest. This law applies to people. While some are naturally driven to complete projects, others are apathetic, requiring motivation to overcome inertia. Laziness, a lifestyle for some, is a temptation for all. But the Bible is clear that, because the Lord ordained work for man, laziness is sin. “Go to the ant, you sluggard! Consider her ways and be wise” (Proverbs 6:6).

The Bible has a great deal to say about laziness. Proverbs is especially filled with wisdom concerning laziness and warnings to the lazy person. Proverbs tells us that a lazy person hates work: “The sluggard's craving will be the death of him, because his hands refuse to work” (21:25); he loves sleep: “As a door turns on its hinges, so a sluggard turns on his bed” (26:14); he gives excuses: “The sluggard says, ‘There is a lion in the road, a fierce lion roaming the streets’” (26:13); he wastes time and energy: “He who is slothful in his work is a brother to him who is a great waster” (18:9 KJV); he believes he is wise, but is a fool: “The sluggard is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who answer discreetly” (26:16).

Proverbs also tells us the end in store for the lazy: A lazy person becomes a servant (or debtor): “Diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in slave labor” (12:24); his future is bleak: “A sluggard does not plow in season; so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing” (20:4); he may come to poverty: “The soul of the lazy man desires and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made rich” (13:4 KJV).

There is no room for laziness in the life of a Christian. A new believer is truthfully taught that “…it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). But a believer can become idle if he erroneously believes God expects no fruit from a transformed life. “For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do” (Ephesians 2:10). Christians are not saved by works, but they do show their faith by their works (James 2:18, 26). Slothfulness violates God’s purpose—good works. The Lord, however, empowers Christians to overcome the flesh’s propensity to laziness by giving us a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17).

In our new nature, we are motivated to diligence and productiveness out of a love for our Savior who redeemed us. Our old propensity toward laziness—and all other sin—has been replaced by a desire to live godly lives: “He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need” (Ephesians 4:28). We are convicted of our need to provide for our families through our labors: “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever” (1 Timothy 5:8); and for others in the family of God: “You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive'” (Acts 20:34-35).

As Christians, we know that our labors will be rewarded by our Lord if we persevere in diligence: “Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers” (Galatians 6:9-10); “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving” (Colossians 3:23-24); “God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them” (Hebrews 6:10).

Christians should labor in God’s strength to evangelize and disciple. The apostle Paul is our example: “We proclaim him [Christ], admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me” (Colossians 1:28-29). Even in heaven, Christians’ service to God will continue, although no longer encumbered by the curse (Revelation 22:3). Free from sickness, sorrow, and sin—even laziness—the saints will glorify the Lord forever. “Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58).(© Copyright 2002-2011 Got Questions Ministries)

 2011/5/19 12:31Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Lazy people are not Christians...

I think we have to be careful that we don't create a scenario that a person wonders how much 'work' they have to perform in order to be saved. Work is a hard thing to measure. Some perceive certain types of work as 'laziness' because they don't understand that responsibility and decision making can be tiring. Bible study and preaching is 'work'. Being a king would be work if the king was truly doing his job- even though his work may not be digging ditches, etc.

Paul writes:

Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. (2 Thess 3)

Here Paul gives another reason as to why he did not always exercise his right to be supported in ministry; "to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us." He did not want people to get the wrong impression. He went above the call to set an example if perchance 'laboring in the word and in preaching' was not sufficient to satisfy concepts of work. He did double duty.

He goes on to reiterate the seriousness of a person pulling their own load, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Minister in 1 Cor 9:13 is ergazomai and it is the same word used in the above text. So we know that ministry is 'work'. They are worthy of eating of the labors of those they minister to as surely as an ox is worthy of eating of the fruit it treads upon. But there were some among them that neither 'worked' or 'ministered' but were rather, "disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." That is, periergazomai, 'peri' being added to 'work' apparently meaning they go around avoiding working. Robertson gives this comment: “The first persecution at Thessalonica had been fostered by a number of fanatical loungers (Ac 17:5)” (Moffatt). These theological dead-beats were too pious to work, but perfectly willing to eat at the hands of their neighbours while they piddled and frittered away the time in idleness."


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/5/19 13:00Profile









 Re:

You have to come alongside a brother or sister and treat each instance, individually. Relationship will help find the root (spiritual) causes. Then the Spirit of God will lead you from there.

A777

 2011/5/19 13:10
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I don't mean to sound rude, but none of you answered my questions.

 2011/5/20 3:37Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: Lazy people are not Christians...

1.) There were some believers amongst the Thessalonians who were slothful (partly because of some imbibing of bad eschatology I think.) Paul said to them in Ch 3:10, "For when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread."

In this passage Paul does not say that they are not saved, nor does he address a hypothetical perpetual situation. He just exhorts against sloth at the command of Jesus. So I think that kind of answers 1 & 2.

2b.)I would always be careful to let God be the judge of the eternal standing of any soul. Matthew 13:24-30 would be the basis for that conviction, amongst many other passages. Just exhort to righteousness, if you are spiritual and have a desire for that persons well being, and you do it with a spirit of meekness. Pray for them first. And pray for your own heart.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/5/20 3:56Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: Lazy people are not Christians...

I am not really sure its our place to judge, and I know that may sound like a cope out but think about it. To everyone Laziness has a different definition and though you maybe a hard working individual someone else who works harder than you can easily point the finger at you and call you Lazy and that perhaps your salvation is at stake.

Romans 2:1 "THEREFORE YOU have no excuse or defense or justification, O man, whoever you are who judges and condemns another. For in posing as judge and passing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce].
2[But] we know that the judgment (adverse verdict, sentence) of God falls justly and in accordance with truth upon those who practice such things.
3And do you think or imagine, O man, when you judge and condemn those who practice such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape God's judgment and elude His sentence and adverse verdict?"

To whose standard is Laziness judged? I know many who work hard labor far beyond what a normal person ought to work only to go home and do more work, certainly their standard of laziness is far from my own and so they would be a stricter judge. I understand there are those that are out right lazy, I have met them but am I a just judge to make that call as to whether or not they are saved? I wouldn't dare do something like that because only Christ is the judge. So what then we just let them be lazy we just say nothing? Yeah, but we don't do nothing we act as Living Testimony through our actions and show them what hard working individuals look like in hope that the Holy Spirit will convict them of their laziness.

Ultimately God knows their heart and why they act the way they do, if you are looking for Judgment on the matter wait for God to do it because He will. Have you thought maybe there are other reasons why they are lazy? Perhaps a medical condition? I would hate to falsely accuse someone in anyway and I would hope you wouldn't try and make that call except perhaps for your ownselve. We really only can look to ourselves and often times when we see our own laziness and are convicted of it we have a knee jerk reaction to say well "I'm not the only lazy one, or Their Lazier." It becomes a big finger pointing game but its really between God and the Individual.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/20 4:18Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I don't mean to sound rude, but none of you answered my questions.



If your looking for a sound bite you will probably not find it here. Your questions do not have slick answers. They are far too involved and contain far too many variables, especially if your interested in a bible based answer.

1. Can a person be saved yet continually lazy?

Is that your definition of lazy or mine?

2. Should we tell a professing believer how sinful it is to be lazy just as much as we would would tell them that lying or adultery is?

I have not appointed myself to correct the children of God in this way except as I would have a good opportunity and as to be led of the Spirit. As we have shown in a few examples, this is not how the issue is approached in the New Testament. There are no examples of folk being warned in this way that I am aware of.

Part B to that question is, can we tell somone they are lost if they exhibit continual laziness?

Why would you want to if you have no biblical precedent? Correction in the NT is always with a view to restoration to Christ and not retaliation. Discipline is not one believer growing fed up with another persons behavior to the point the want to use the nuclear button (their security in Christ) to motivate repentance. If (not saying it is) that is the case the person with the laziness is probably the one with the speck and the corrector has the beam.



_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/5/20 5:51Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I understand that maybe I should ask this question somewhere else. It seems like I am trying to condemn someone and I assure you all this isn't the case.

Also, there are a lot of doctrinal presuppositions that are needed in a debate like this, and it seems clear that you all do not possess those important presuppositions. Since I do not have the patience to type it all out, I apologize if I riled you up in any way, I am sorry that I could not continue this conversation any further, I am really sorry that I have wasted your time. God Bless and thank you for the answers you did give me.

 2011/5/20 9:00Profile





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