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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Science and the bible

I recently finished a biology class in college and got an AA degree. One thing that kept going through my mind in this class is the degree of separation there is between the religious/spiritual realm and that of the natural realm. My teacher taught as if they both have nothing to do with each other. Yet I couldn't help but wonder how false that is.

As christians the bible tells us that God's handiwork is clearly seen by the things that are made so we have no excuse. It seems the realm of science doesn't want to bring God into the picture because God=religion which = blind faith and science cannot test God to see if He is real. Is there any relevance to that? Just because God cannot be tested as science would have it?

I also wondered this. Science has its theories about evolution and shows that the universe and Earth is much older than what the bible would seem to explain. I have wondered, could science and the bible both be right whereas Science is getting to specifics whereas the bible is somewhat broad with the beginninig except for when it tells us on each day what was made? To me it seems like there is either something missing or there is something there that can be put together but I am not sure where that peice of the puzzle is.

Just some thoughts. What do you think?


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John

 2011/5/18 8:31Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: Science and the bible

Very interesting post and very interesting question. :) When I came to Christ I remember the Holy Spirit whisper to my heart, "Becoming a Christian isn't an abandonment of Intellect."

That is what a lot of people fear is the blind faith part, which in my opinion is hardly blind if we look around us at how detailed every little thing is. I know you know this since you just got done with biology but I was always fascinated by the fact that not only our human frame incredibly complex and full of detail and function but the very cells we are made of are completely complex and detailed in their own right. I mean a cell has a bunch of different parts one being the Nucleous which in its simplest sense is the brain of the cell. I also know that some of the most brillant scientist to the very least acknowledge the fact that "hey there most likely is a God." if not full blown Yup God does exist.

As far as the Evolution thing, I really don't know I have heard a lot of different things like "The Gap Theory" basically Google it if you want more information. I don't have the time to explain. :)


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/18 8:54Profile









 Re: Science and the bible

EVILution and the Bible cannot both be right. They directly contradict each other at crucial points. Biblically speaking the earth is only about 6,000 years old, not billions as the EVILutionists would try to have us believe. Also, the dirty little secret that archeologists don't want people to know is that carbon dating is a bit flawed; it is far from perfect.

Another contradiction is that EVILution teaches that man is EVOLVING, whereas a study of the scriptures shows that man is clearly DEvolving: begin in Genesis and write down the age of death of every patriarch you come across and you will see the gradual and steady decline in length of life across time, all the way down to modern day. Start with Adam.

For example, Noah lived 950 years and now the average age of death is between 70 and 80 give or take. That is NOT evolution, that is devolution.

I could go on and on about all the flaws in EVILutionary theory and the like. There are just SO many lies in their little fairy tale. Too bad the professors and teachers refuse to have their students read pro-creation books that exist alongside the pro-EVILution trash they force down student throats.

 2011/5/18 10:14
hoohoou
Member



Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re: Science and the bible

I found some good information at northwest creation conferences and Seattle Creation Conferences. The latter has a lot of free downloads. There really is some fascinating information out there. Ken Hamm is another good resource at answers in Genesis. As I said, there is lots of good information but much of it may stretch your beliefs, both physical and spiritual.


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Matt Smith

 2011/5/18 10:51Profile









 Re: Science and the bible

Quote:
I also wondered this. Science has its theories about evolution and shows that the universe and Earth is much older than what the bible would seem to explain... To me it seems like there is either something missing or there is something there that can be put together but I am not sure where that peice of the puzzle is.

I have two very simple thoughts on this. First, we still don't know the effects of rays which are still being discovered which pass right through matter all the time. Second, we do know that one big solar flare can short out electricity supplies and power stations on earth, and cause aging to speed up.

For instance, I heard of one some years ago, just after a space station had been sent up. The solar flare aged it by a decade while shorting out a large part of Ontario (I think). My point is, there are seasons of high solar flare activity - not all with those consequences - but they are all the while eating away at the 'youth' of the data which scientists examine - from which they then draw conclusions way off from the Bible's timeline.

1c !

 2011/5/18 11:00
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I understand about EVILution and have heard of Ken Ham. I have heard some weird things about Ken Ham but that is another story.

Science is only concerned about the physical world and it explains the existance of the universe from a phyiscal perspective. Have you ever wondered what part of its experiments it may be interpreting wrong? Or is there something in Genesis that isn't laid out for us that we are ignorant of?

How in the world, can science and religion be so far apart?

I am doing an online class in social science and it begins with the physical sciences. I have to maintain a blog with it as well so now I have 2 blogs. My first entry in the blog is dealing with this subject.

If man is religious by nature and science can't seem to prove the supernatural then is science wrong? Or just misguided?

How can 2 entities seem to go in almost opposite directions to get answers to the same question? Or is it a case of not seeing the forest from the trees?


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John

 2011/5/18 11:06Profile
hoohoou
Member



Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Science and religion are not far apart. In fact the whole earth is full of the glory of God. So when we seek and subdue the physical things with an open heart and mind we find God at work. http://www.nwcreation.net/videos/index.html
this website has a lot of speakers who speak directly to the issues you're having. I've listened to most of them. The vast majority of the speaker hold doctorates in their respective fields so it's not your local yahoo telling you the Bible is true because it says so.

If you really want to search it out you can also look up Francis Collins, Gerald Schroeder, and John Lennox. These are Christians who believe that God used evolution except Schroeder who is Jewish. Francis Collins was head of the team that mapped the human genome.

My conclusion was that modern science is misguided. They begin with a theory (evolution) and filter everything they see through that filter. The fact that they will not even consider a young earth limits their reasoning and understanding. Some of the scientific findings after the Mt Saint Helen's eruption of the 80's were very interesting. You can look it up but many of the findings (fossils, geology) within 10 years were things thought to have taken millions of years.

The guys in the link I copied are very convincing.

You're questions are good questions. They're things that you are going to have to research yourself. Again, prepare to have your faith stretched. People can be very convincing about things that are untrue. Gerald Schroeder's theory on the age of the earth is fascinating and will tie your brain in knots for a week, but in the end it just doesn't hold water. Listen to everyone, hear everyone but don't believe to quickly.


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Matt Smith

 2011/5/18 13:02Profile
DJSavage
Member



Joined: 2010/2/17
Posts: 32
BC, Canada

 Re: Science and the bible

I'll just share something I heard John C. Lennox share (paraphrased) at a talk called Christianity and the Tooth Fairy (you can find it at the Veritas Forum):

"God or science? Please choose!" That's like looking at a Ford automobile and saying "Physics and internal combustion, or Henry Ford? Please choose!"


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Dustin Savage

 2011/5/18 13:25Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: Science and the bible

Hi DEADn,

There are many scientists who believe in God. I was blessed to have sat under Physics and Chemistry professors at secular universities who also taught Sunday School at their respective churches. I have also worked with prominent scientists who were very vocal regarding their faith in Christ.

There is certainly a prejudice against Christianity in the "funded" science level. Individuals who make a living off of public or private funds have an interest in somewhat predetermined "results" of their research (or in their public rhetoric). This is clear in issues from stem cell research, "global warming," or even those seeking institutional tenure.

There is a recent film regarding this prejudice. The documentary is entitled EXPELLED: NO INTELLIGENCE ALLOWED. In the film, Ben Stein highlights the incredible amounts of intolerance and even hostility regarding diversity of thought in the world of funded science.

As for your initial question, I do believe that true science will not refute the truths of God's Word. Now, this is a source of consternation for some scientists and often brings accusations of "circular reasoning." However, on the premise of faith that God is OMNIPOTENT, then there is NOTHING outside of his grasp. God is not "confined" by the laws of the universe that He designed -- although we are physically bound.

Science is certainly not an "enemy" of faith -- although, when it is improperly used, can be used as ammunition for personal attacks on faith. In fact, it takes a lot of faith for scientists to "believe" in science! Much of science is built upon the discovery of scientific predecessors. In modern instruction of science and scientific theory, students often believe what they are taught without "testing" those things for themselves. Why? It would take quite a bit of time and effort to "revisit" theories that are thought to be "well-established." However, this has an unintended effect of never considering alternative views of the same matter.

Evolution is believed because it has been taught as fact and not theory. Granted, there are many things that "seem" to point toward it as ringing "true" -- which is why so many intelligent minds embrace the theory. In fact, most evolutionists point toward micro-evolution as "proof" of evolution on a major scale. They also point to the apparent age of the Earth (via geology) and age of the universe (through astro-physics -- knowing that the light arriving from most stars are further away than the 6000 year "young earth" periodic belief of many Christians). However, the major premise behind evolution is a dismissal of the existence of God.

Many scientists feel that they have no "reason" to believe in God. They argue that, given the lack of "evidence," they can't believe in God any more than they can believe in Zeus, Brahma or a "flying spaghetti monster."

So, since they reason that God probably doesn't exist, they must theorize just how life originated on the Earth. So, they couple the apparent belief that the Earth is very, very old, the age of the universe, the Big Bang Theory, observations of micro-evolution and the apparent similarities between animals (including human beings) and formulate a particular theory. More importantly, evolution teaches that life itself somehow seeks perpetual perfection. This desire to survive, thrive and be the "fittest" (ala "survival of the fittest") is based upon the fact that life continues to thrive on this planet.

However, for all that evolution apparently explains, there is so much more that it cannot explain. Evolution cannot explain why the process of evolution doesn't apparently occur for lower life forms (like plankton), or is regional (the divergent differences in life in Australia compared with other continents), or why certain life forms that were supposed precursors are still around and thrive relatively "un-evolved."

Moreover, the theory of evolution doesn't explain the massive amount of differences between a human being and even the most "intelligent" animals.

Anyway, I know that this doesn't help your initial question very much. However, I should remind you that faith does not need to be "explained." After all, it is the "substance of things hoped for" and "the evidence of things unseen." It is an embrace of something that you cannot see...cannot measure...yet you hold to be true.

I passed from being an agnostic young man as a teenager into faith in Christ Jesus. There is no longer ANY DOUBT in my mind regarding the character and person of Jesus Christ. There are plenty of reasons for this that I don't need to go in here. Yet, I know many scientists who will acknowledge that their "faith" in what they assume to be "established" science waivers.

Still, I know quite a few scientists who not only believe in God, but have a relationship with Him. You might consider asking them the same thing that you asked here. And, of course, it is important that you maintain your relationship with the Lord and ask Him to maintain and even increase your own faith at the same time.


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Christopher

 2011/5/18 13:50Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Science and the bible

A few years ago it was fairly popular practice for Bible teachers to claim to find in the Scriptures confirmation of almost every new discovery made by science. Apparently no one noticed that the scientist had to find it before the Bible teacher could, and it never seemed to occur to anyone to wonder why, if it was there in the Bible in such plain sight, it took several thousand years and the help of science before anyone saw it.

Now, I believe that everything in the Bible is true, but to attempt to make it a textbook for science is to misunderstand it completely and tragically. The purpose of the Bible is to bring men to Christ, to make them holy and prepare them for heaven. In this it is unique among books, and it always fulfills its purpose when it is read in faith and obedience

Tozer



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CHRISTIAN

 2011/5/19 4:12Profile





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