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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : To stay or not to stay that is the question?

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staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 To stay or not to stay that is the question?

Hi,
As an ex Catholic I see no doctrine to say that God would instruct a Christian to stay in the Catholic Church to preach.I have heard a few couple of people say that over the years.
I am not saying that the person who stays to preach is not a christian,nor am I saying that people wont come to Christ because of him.If Jesus was in that situation I think what would happen is this,he would not except the Mass,statue worship,works doctrine etc.He would preach the gospel of grace and he would be shown the door.
What do you think?

 2011/5/17 6:42Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: To stay or not to stay that is the question?

Interesting question, I believe its a heart thing. I have heard several accounts of similar things one being an Amish man who came to the Lord and began to see past all of the Amish rules. He began to follow the Lord and guess where the Lord lead him? Right back into the Amish Church this time not to follow all of their rules and doctrinces of dress but to be a witness. He does however out of respect and a more powerful witness do many of the things the Amish do but NOW with no true religious conviction but rather that he may win some to the Lord. He does however break the some of the rules like Reading the Bible in plain English, the Amish believe you should read the bible in Old German, the language of their ancestors.

Also doesn't our Dear brother Paul say He was a Jew for the Jews but not under the Law? He became all things for all men that they maybe saved. What would be the difference here? A disconnect of the Heart. If their are 100% trusting in Christ for their salvation and only "doing the Catholic things" to stay as a true witness of Christ Jesus then I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Now I believe it would be wise to stop with some of the heretical things of the ROMAN Catholic Church like Popish worship, praying to Mary/ the Saints, etc.

God sees the heart more intently than any and knows if their person is doing this for the correct reasons.

I am another example I suppose, I use to have terrible language along with the friends that follow this, did I just abandon those friends? No, why? Because my heart became further from the sin that it use to love such as swearing, which they still do but know that its no longer apart of my vocabulary and so use it far less frequently around me because I have now become a witness to them that "Hey, maybe cursing is wrong." Also know I have met many people that have cursed and cussed for so long they no longer view it as a negative but with they feel or hear the contrast of my new vocabulary it causes them to really look at how they talk. BUT again its all about the Heart and its all about being a Witness of Christ Jesus and how he can transform your heart into something completely new.

I already know many of you will probably disagree with me on this one but thats okay, We are all growing at different rates and speeds and this answer is currently where I am at, I do hope you show some grace. :)

*Edited Additions added later* Also I have seen what I would view as a system of Pharisism in the average local church. The do's and don'ts of Christianity, like going to church religiously to worship God in an hour meeting time, looking at the back of the head of some guy ahead of you in the pew. I look at the bible and see something different and alive, BUT I still go to church, but now its out of Love for my Brothers who are still in bondage to religion clinging on to the hope that maybe if they go to church enough they maybe saved. Wouldn't it make sense that this form of religion is just as wrong as the Roman Catholic church? I stay as a witness to them that its ALL CHRIST. I disagree with the "format" and how church is done on the modern whole but because my heart knows the truth and my heart is disconnected I am uneffected by the Religisoity know as "modern Churchianity" but my heart is ever connect to those that need them and it even breaks for them as I see them still feel empty as I once did.

All in all whether its in the form of religion or the form of swearing, the Flesh is the Flesh and it truly STINKS like the dying corps it is. If God has told the man to stay then so be it as long as His heart is connected to the Father and disconnected to the Roman Catholic church.*

God Bless,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/5/17 7:14Profile
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re:

If one is born again and placed in an atmosphere of unbelievers it can be a good situation. If however placed amongst the religious whether Catholic or Protestant who are not born again then there will be a reckoning with truth. Either conversion will result from the witness or man's religion will not strive with the truth that exposes it. Your truth which is God's truth will cause great commotion. I would not judge an outcome before it happens where God is involved. Much prayer, asking God to give you a peaceful and calm spirit amongst the many trials that will face you. You cannot change anyone, but He can. There tends to be much unbridled zeal in these situations so be in the Spirit that is Christ and not your flesh when you speak to others. It is so easy to see the wrongs and the blindness and get out of the Spirit. The blind are blind for a reason. There must be compassion just as Christ had for you, but never compromise of the truth. Give your testimony! Amongst the dead it speaks to regeneration which will be foreign to them. They will only know a salvation that comes by their efforts whether affirmation or works. Yours will be of a transformation apart from your efforts. Yours will speak to a miracle. It will sharply contrast what they hold to and understand as "born again".

Be careful for yourself. You will most likely stand alone. Where will you get your strength? This is what you must consider. There will be no renewing of your mind with them, only apart from them. There will be no fellowship, or edification in false religion, only an insult to the true God that you will take personally. He will defend Himself just be his witness. So it is important that you garner your strength in much time with the Lord. You will be alone as the prophets were. You will most likely be just as accepted as they were as well. No one can say what God will do, but this will be monumental to your faith and walk. If ostracized you may find your self in the wilderness. He however will be with you and will give you what you need if that happens. He will even grow you in it as He is faithful. You will not be there long is you live the and speak the truth so make use of the time you will have. (That is unless God does a great work amongst them and what a wonderful thing that would be) Believe in Him for this because you can so easily be brought down if you depend upon your efforts. He is the one who moves mens hearts and you know this more than anything else having been brought back from the dead.

Pray and ask for others to stand with you because you will do war against the evil one who is behind the counterfeit. My prayers will be with you.

 2011/5/17 9:38Profile









 Re:

Staying in the Catholic Church is like staying in the Mormon or Jehovah Witness church.

Never heard of anyone doing that.

It is a heart thing and you end up leaving. You may not have the light your first week or two or first month or two, but eventually the Holy Spirit will lead you out if you continue in His Word.

Catholicism is not Christianity. Every Priest or Nun that came to Jesus Christ that I know of, left the RCC.

The Mass is blasphemy and denigrates Jesus Christ. If you have never been Catholic, this may seem harsh to you.

A777

 2011/5/17 9:43
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re:

Hi All,
Thanks for your replys.I guess my views line up with anonymous777.I just cant see The Holy Spirit directing a christian to stay in the Catholic Church to minister.
Firstly it gives credibility to false religion.There are more false things in the Catholic Church than good.In fact I cant name the good things.What about all the rules Paul gave the church to live by.I cant see the Holy Spirit directing a christian to do evil by celebrating mass,praying to Mary etc so that good can be done.
They may stay in the Catholic Church and may preach and people may be saved because God uses all things for the Good.However this does not mean God directed them to stay.
I dont think that God would give people a heart to stay in but he may give them a heart for Catholics,Maybe thats where they get confused,thanks Staff

 2011/5/17 17:27Profile
lylewise
Member



Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re: To stay or not to stay that is the question?

I did not understand this to be hypothetical. I thought this was a real situation. One who is awoken and finds himself in what is false, is already on borrowed time. God can awaken others in the midst of a bad situation that is going south very quickly. Cut and run? No! Who leaves a theater quietly when they smell smoke and see the flames. A fool one may be called, but better a fool by men than to never hear the words,"well done my faithful servant"

Fellowship with the lie? No again. There is nothing more grievous than compromising the truth and dead religion forces one to do this. You will yell fire and some may be saved but most likely you will be fired (asked to leave). You will be a siren or you will be silenced

I write this because some may be in this situation. Not just a hypothetical one. Obviously one cannot stay where the Spirit is grieved and truth is a lie. Yet we should yell fire and pray that God will give us the voice to shout it loud while giving others ears to hear it.

Now if one has been in this situation then many dead have been identified. There are opportunities plenty. You could share the truth with the deceived and they may even know you by name.

 2011/5/17 19:32Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re:

Hi Lylewise,
It is both hypothetical and real.Why it has come to my mind is that recently a christian tv station has brought a new presenter to a programme in that situation.He says he is called to minister in the Catholic Church.
It is my firm belief that this cannot be and would hope the tv station would not continue to support this view.
How could it be?staff

 2011/5/17 20:09Profile









 Re: To stay or not to stay that is the question?

I believe that a true born again Christian will not remain in the Catholic cult. A true Christian would not be able to bear with it; the Holy Ghost in him would make him abhor it all to the point of being sick to his stomach with all the abominations and hypocrisies ineherent therein.
1.Let the dead bury their own dead.
2.Let them alone, if the blind lead the blind they will both fall into the ditch.
3.Come ye out from among them and touch not the unclean thing!

 2011/5/17 20:14





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