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 Re: The destruction of the flesh


Hi David,

I quoted this passage to Jeremy in his question about observations or scriptures associated with the spirit going out of the house, but returning to find it empty and garnished, and taking seven more wicked... (I mentioned fox in the passing. I was also thinking of the 'little foxes that spoil the vines').

Quote:
And Jesus here says that He had to walk today, tomorrow and the day following as a hen gathering her brood under her wings. Naturally speaking, not a good thing to do.

This is a brilliant observation. I've never noticed it before.

It shows that He truly expects to protect us from danger.


Does anyone believe that?

 2011/5/13 19:54









  Defile the Temple, and be destroyed, for God is Jealous.

Thanks RobertW for a fine synopsis; very anointed...and 777 and Oracio too. A very needed and deep study.
This is about holiness and Jealousy. The Lord says,
Exodus 34:14

14 "For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God,

15 ...lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods"....

The existence of the holy church, from the garden of Eden, on until today, is about Holiness...the chief aspect of God's character. It is about ourselves, being the actual Temple of Jahweh God on earth...both individually and corporately. God has, and always had a people, that He owns. They are His offspring. It is the OUTCALLED ONES.

It is the church. It is His Temple; US.

1 Corinthians 3:16-18 (New King James Version)
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are!"

Ananias and Sapphira was an act of jealousy from the Lord, for their lying greed would eventually defile the young and exceedingly holy first church. They were offered repentance from the great Apostle Peter...ONE TIME! ever so brief. "Did you sell your land for this many shekels?"

They chose not to repent; to carry their deceit...and payed with their lives, on the spot. Their flesh was destroyed...their body. They defiled the temple, and were delivered over.

The young man fornicating with his fathers concubine evidently did repent. Judas, it seemed, was never offered the opportunity.....and fulfilled his "son of Perdition" role.

I believe that every instance of a soul being delivered unto Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, must be delivered in this vein. That is what it is about.

Shepherds, for the sake of the flock, must maintain holiness, for holiness and the issues of life are the same; They are one. Jesus said ; I AM THE Life, The Way, and the truth.

This is the the most important issue for the
Pastors that I can think of, and the highest duty and call. It must be done, from time to time, when necessary, and it occurs, or should, when the Holy church is being defiled by the wicked unrepentant. This may also take the form of infiltrating the church with bad and lying doctrine....heretics.

Titus 3:9-11 (New King James Version)


9. "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

Heretic means divisive...holding on to wicked doctrine, and spreading it, and thereby defiling, polluting the holy church.

Continued excessive fleshy sin,or simply holding on to the lie, while enjoying the benefits of God's Temple. "Deliver such a one to Satan!"

For the sake of the little ones, and a dwelling place for our God, it must be done, when neccessary from tome to time. Where is it today?? In the power of the Spirit? It's coming back soon.




 2011/5/13 19:55









 Re:

From AtG:

Quote:
This seems to be a benign picture, but I wonder if it is, spiritually speaking? The only time I heard this preached upon, the preacher seemed to be saying that the church could be a good hiding place for unclean spirits. (Yes. That definite.) This thought ties in with the many verses you brought from the Old Testament, (and the field which had been deliberately sown with tares by an enemy).



Milton Green who ministered in hundreds of churches and ministered deliverance from the Pastor on down in many of the same churches, said that "The Church is the dwelling place of demons" and that "there is a war going on and the Church has not shown up for the battle".

Unclean spirits certainly seem to be welcome in the Churches, today.

This is nothing new, the SYNAGOGUE was a good hiding place for unclean spirits, too. I wonder why it was a good hiding place? Do you think the powers of darkness had convinced the religious leaders that unclean spirits could not cohabitate with them?

But let's back up a bit,,In Zechariah, we see this.

Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for UNCLEANNESS.

This is prophetic of Jesus Christ, our Fountain.

What is the source of this uncleanness?

Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the IDOLS out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the UNCLEAN SPIRIT to pass out of the land.

IDOLS are associated with an UNCLEAN SPIRIT or vice-versa, eh? See here.

Isa 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the IDOLS, and to the charmers, and to them that have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, and to the wizards.

Ok back to Zechariah and it's fulfillment.
Here is the fulfillment of Zechariah 13. The FOUNTAIN has arrived!!

Mar 1:23 And there was in their SYNAGOGUE a man with an UNCLEAN SPIRIT; and he cried out, (he probably never cried out before. Only cried out because the Spirit of God in Jesus was present). Why doesn't this happen more of today? Something is missing and I don't think it is the unclean spirits.

Mar 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

Mar 1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and COME OUT OF HIM.

Mar 1:26 And when the UNCLEAN SPIRIT had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.

Mar 1:27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the UNCLEAN SPIRITS, and they do obey him.

A777


 2011/5/14 1:20









 Re: The destruction of the flesh


Hi to all reading,

Thanks A777 for your further thoughts.

They have led me to think about other connected verses - though possibly not everyone would agree with the following.

One thing I noticed about the way Paul phrases the accusation is: 'that one should have his father's wife.' He puts the responsibility squarely with the man. This is consistent throughout scripture. Just wanted to mention it, in light of the current thread, 'The Feminization of Chritsianity', http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39037&forum=34.

We don't know if the woman is in the church or not. I've never wondered, before today, but perhaps she was not, or she would also have been censured - as we see in the other example in the OP. We might find it easy to assume such behaviour is beyond repentance, or a sign of never having been a Christian, but this is NOT what Christ states.

Therefore, in light of His expectations of the church leaders in the churches to whom He writes through John in Revelation 2 and 3, we have to think that there is a correlation between what John said here, when writing to SAINTS:

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but TRY THE SPIRITS WHETHER THEY ARE OF GOD: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 and EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSETH NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH IS NOT OF GOD: AND THIS IS THAT [spirit] OF ANTICHRIST, WHEREOF YE HAVE HEARD THAT IT SHOULD COME; and even now already is it in the world.

and Paul said here: 1 Corinthians 12:1 - 14
Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.


contd.

 2011/5/14 8:57









 Re: The destruction of the flesh



For those who have heard that certain gifts are not for the Church - a distinction I do not 'see' in scripture - there is another place where all the gifts are by implication included in a grander, but more compact form of the 1 Cor 12 statement, here in Ephesians 4:1 - 9, 11 - 16:

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: THAT WE [henceforth] BE NO MORE CHILDREN, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the SLEIGHT OF MEN, [and] CUNNING CRAFTINESS, whereby THEY LIE in wait TO DECEIVE; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.'


Paul goes on to compare their former life as Gentiles, with his foregoing description of the direction in which the Church should be moving - the up-building of the saints - both one to another, and, in the context of the assembly by the gifts given to the body by Christ.

In the light of the various censures Christ meted out to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3, it seems imperative that 'discerning of spirits', as John defines, is seen to be FOR the Church - perhaps even more - than for 'the world'. John went on to say of those whose 'spirit' did not confess that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh:

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.

Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.'

Note how he immediately turns us back to Christ's 'new commandment' - that we 'love one another'? This is how Paul said the body would be built up, in Eph 4:16 above. We really have to 'get' this connection. It is no use to God's plan if we simply eject from our company, every person who needs deliverance from a wrong spirit. He has given us gifts to use under His anointing and direction for His own purpose.

Psalm 127:1
Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.

 2011/5/14 9:26
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

You are so right AtG
"It is no use to God's plan if we simply eject from our company, every person who needs deliverance from a wrong spirit. He has given us gifts to use under His anointing and direction for His own purpose."

I have often thought that Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church:
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: 2 Cor 6:14 (KJV)

does not initially refer to marriages or business partnership, as some say. Rather Paul is speaking of the church being the temple of God, and is allowing for the fact that there will be unbelievers among them. "Be not unequally yoked " is saying have unbelievers among you, but not too many. As usual with the Spirit, numbers are not given.

Regarding the gift of discerning of spirits, Such gifts will certainly be in the church. But John writes to the "little children", that they have an unction from the Holy one, and they know all things. 1John 2.20. This is in the context of spirits. So the believers generally are able by the Holy Ghost to discern what is of God.

David


_________________
david

 2011/5/14 19:50Profile









 Re: The destruction of the flesh

Quote:
I have often thought that Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church:
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: 2 Cor 6:14 (KJV) does not initially refer to marriages or business partnership, as some say. Rather Paul is speaking of the church being the temple of God, and is allowing for the fact that there will be unbelievers among them. "Be not unequally yoked " is saying have unbelievers among you, but not too many.

Hi David,

Possibly you were taking a step of faith suggesting there should not be too many unbelievers in the assembly, but I would go further and suggest there should be as few as possible.

I'm reminded of a Wesley hymn which describes believers as 'escaped from the world' (Peter's line in the first chapter of his second epistle), and I feel the sanctuary of church has been lost by the numbers of unbelievers who feel free to attend. Their presence completely alters how the saints behave, and worship is curtailed considerably. (Probably other aspects of fellowship are different, too.)

Also, if you keep reading 2 Cor 6, Paul is talking about Christians mixing with unbelievers at THEIR places of worship, and goes on to say v 17 WHEREFORE COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YE SEPARATE, SAITH THE LORD...' and that's not the end of the command, God continues 'AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING', before comes the outcome God desires 'AND I WILL RECEIVE YOU'.

Quote:
So the believers generally are able by the Holy Ghost to discern what is of God.

I believe John gave us the test at the beginning of 1 John 4 because it is a necessary tool in establishing the origin of some spiritual manifestations. I know someone who has a gift of discernment of spirits, who had to ask a person who had sought prayer, to ask the spirits whether Jesus Christ had come in the flesh. They replied 'no' - and yet the person in relationship with them was convinced they were from God, and didn't want to be separated from them. John's test enabled the prayer minister to make a safe decision in line with God's word, and, to remain in peace about it.

 2011/5/14 20:43
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

AtG

I fully agree with all you say.

PS I do love the hymn at the bottom of your post. I used to sing it regularly in the time when I was in the UK. dAVID


_________________
david

 2011/5/15 11:52Profile









 Re: The destruction of the flesh

Hi David,

It's delightful to find you're in agreement! :)

I used to sing that hymn too. I found it on the internet in the public domain, posted on a Palmer family website in memory of Joy. So, where did you used to sing it, and did you know the Palmers?

 2011/5/15 17:30
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Here is a thought; Is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

"It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." That, "is come in my flesh"?

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 and EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSETH NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH IS NOT OF GOD: AND THIS IS THAT [spirit] OF ANTICHRIST, WHEREOF YE HAVE HEARD THAT IT SHOULD COME; and even now already is it in the world.

I believe that Jesus is come in my flesh, that He is born again of the Spirit in me, and now I am a new creature in Christ. The Holy Spirit also lives in this "temple", for including God the Father I have the Whole God Head in me, God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit now make their abode in and with me.

Is this even a deeper confession? Not that Jesus came in the flesh as a man and went to the Cross for all believers, but now He is come in our flesh, and our new life. So my confession is; "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" If we don't have the Spirit of Christ, "we are none of His".

In Christ believing He is come in my flesh: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/5/16 15:12Profile





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