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Codek, if I may use the Hospital analogy again and someone in "heart failure" rushing to the ER ... if he can still speak at all during this heart-failure and the Dr asks, "Have you a Dr?" -- and the man says, "Yes" - and then Dr asks, "Did you act on the recommendations he gave you to change your life-style and take the medications he prescribed for you?" and the man answers, "No" ... Then the ER Dr knows all the more of why this man's heart is failing him.

In your prayer request today on the other thread, you said -

"I sound like a broken record but God hasn't done anything in my life to really change it."

Do you see the connection here?

Now this patient is in the ER - claiming to be "flat-lining".

We call that a "Code Blue" at the Hospital and you probably know what they'd do first - "the defibrilator" or as some may call it "Shock the guy."

The "fear of the LORD" is that first 'shock' that awakens a person enough to begin the remainder of the emergency procedures to get their heart back.
Somewhere - the 'fear' of the LORD must have been just enough shock for you to ask for prayer - but saying that "GOD hasn't done anything" is definitely a problem with you. And posting these youtubes just sends a message that you didn't want to follow your Great Physicians orders when they were first given to you, somewhere along the line.

You need the defibrilator again and we'll pray for that and that you'll see that it is never our Great Physician that is not responding or co-operating but has prescribed the ways for all of us to stay consistently heart-healthy.

None of us want to 'Charge GOD foolishly' & "some save with fear".

 2011/5/7 14:49

Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa


Hi Codek

I am not sure what the video says because my connection is too slow to load youtube.

There is a sermon by Paul Washer called "The depth of the Gospel", not sure if its here on SI but i could find it somewhere online for you if you cant.

Please listen to that.


 2011/5/7 15:03Profile

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas


I would consider this an opportunity as sad as it may seem to gain insight and understanding of the condition of many who are churched.I appreciate you posting it Codek. This is much of the world around us. The insight into this young mans struggles needs to be understood and recognized. I was so impressed by the gal that posted Wilkersons last sermon where he spoke to wondering the area of 42nd street during his daily walks and asking that the Lord impress upon him the lostness of the hundreds if not thousands of those who are worshipping one god or another near Times Square. Imagine one like him who had such a heart, asking God after all those years, to give him eyes to see the lost in his last days. That is dependence upon God!

This young man is a casualty not unlike untold millions who have come up against false notions and struggles with religion. It will be difficult for many to listen to this young man as they will look at him having painted a picture of himself that seems almost saint like. His piousness would challenge many in their faith because they cannot see how one who looks so real is not. There is truth to so many of the things he has mentioned. Truly in churches there is much false fire, and there is much flesh working under the name of God. It should be no surprise when we put faith in such men and a god created more in our image than His own, that there should be great disillusionment and disappointment.

It is the wisdom (reasoning) of man that God sees as foolishness that we are talking about. Likewise it is the wisdom of God that men see (reason) as foolish. Foolishness begins with men. It will always be when men seek to understand God from the natural. It is always foolish no matter how much arithmetic, false science or reasoning they use. It is always death to do so. (There is a way that seems so very right to men, but in the end it leads to death) It does not exempt anyone who pursues its end! Neither Elder, Evangelist, Deacon, Prophet or Teacher is exempt from such fatal reasoning. Or in this case a young man who is struggling with who God is according to his own reasoning. Even choosing to disregard scripture that is not palatable to his desire. I feel very burdened by youth like this. To his credit he does reveal that the image of God in scripture does not fit the image of the god he has made. He judges what is important not by the true God, but by the god that others have made as well.

This young man wants desperately to come out of bondage. The problem is his bondage is self inflicted. His was a religion without true heart but it looked so right to him and to those around him. Many, as sad as it is, will identify themselves with Christ and do a great many things that will look as Christ yet without the heart of Christ. That is the Spirit to us who believe.

This was the call and warning given by many a preacher recorded on SI. One might even say that the blood of Abel sounded the first warning. It is as old as mankind and it could not be more timely for the age in which we live. It is the majority make up of religion today. "The majority are lost"! It would be redundant to say such a thing about those who have virtually no exposure to God. That was not the intent of the men who warned us. They always applied it to the religious and churched!

This is to be the greatest part of our mission field today if we will believe the words of those who have gone before us. We must also teach the fulness of God. When the teaching of Gods fullness is neglected, He will become to us a very one sided god indeed. This young man could not hold long to such a one sided god. Who could?

 2011/5/7 20:50Profile


Hey brother Codek, sincerely speaking, what is it exactly that your looking for out of Christianity?

Let me share something of what I look for out of Christianity.

I am a great sinner and I need a great saviour. One such man stepped forward and paid for my redemption to which I am eternally grateful. There are others who share in this as well to which I am happy to be apart of. But I had to stop looking for that perfect Church on earth because it can't be found. Paul tells us to look unto Jesus and nothing else. When you look to Him for your sustenance all doubts flee away.

If I may suggest something, it would be advisable to stop watching programs that bring doubt to the validity of Christ.

Let me say further that it doesn't take a lot to adjust the mind to exhibit faith, all it takes is the willingness to do so and flinging aside the reasonings of doubt, and God will do the rest. Allow Him to do that by simply asking Him to make Himself real to you. Having prayed that in all sincerity, go about your day and allow Him to work in mysterious ways that will knock your socks off.

It's just you and God and if He includes anyone else in your life to be a blessing to you and you them, then count that as a perk. But it basically boils down to just you and Him.

 2011/5/7 23:00


I watched all four parts, and I have to say, while the guy primarily talks about himself and his "experience", I do applaud him for his sincerity and honesty.

That being said. I believe he summed up his entire experience in his last sentence...

" I was running to the very thing that was hurting me the most."

...and he's right. Based upon his own words, its clear that he never knew the love of God. Oh he told God that he loved Him, but he never knew and came to a rest in the love that God had for him. So all he had, even with all his wonderful experience, was dead religion.

He wasn't running to Jesus. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but he was not. If a man runs to Jesus, his burden is lifted..."Come unto me..." He was running to an idol. A God of conditional love. A God of his own making. One who cannot hear and cannot speak.

The most fearful warning in scripture is not in regard to lying, murder, hatred, lust, etc. The most fearful warning in scripture is found in Hebrews 4:1,2:

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The most difficult thing for a person to do is to receive the unconditional love of God that is found in Christ.

 2011/5/7 23:54

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas


Atheism is freedom. That is to answer to no one you must be free from everyone. That is the way out of the bondage this young man feels. To deny God provides him freedom, at least that is his thought. Yet the god of this world uses velvet shackles. His are attractive to the eye. They look even comfortable, vogue, and sporty! Beneath the velvet cover of His shackles is a metal harder than steel. It even hardens with time.

There are two kinds of people that seek freedom. Strangely they will both voluntarily place themselves in bondage by seeking freedom. The Christain's bondage to Christ is true freedom. The atheist seeking freedom from the God of all creation ends up in bondage to the prince of this world where he has always been but this time with little to no restraint. So the atheist in his attempt to be freed willingly enslaves himself. Just as an animal that seeks freedom from hunger and is enticed by the bait that will be its undoing.

I'm not sure this young man is not in a better place as one who has placed himself opposed to and in defiance of God. He will deal with much in an effort to convince himself that what is clearly evidenced by God's creative hand comes by way of anything other than God himself. Or is he safer within the walls of religious affirmations void of substance and heart, resting in an assurance that has no foundation? I would think the former.

 2011/5/8 16:23Profile

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Deconversion: I can't say this guy is lying.

This is why I believe it is so important for us to understand and discern the issue of true and false conversion. Many of us have become accustomed to such a shallow view of conversion that we cannot tell when someone is obviously a false convert with all the wrong motives for doing church. If someone professes to be a Christian we accept their profession without question. We are afraid to discern or judge rightly as Christ exhorted. The Word warns us over and over regarding this very issue. Jesus said that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. What we utter says volumes about where our hearts are in relation to God.


 2011/5/8 19:17Profile

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA


Toward the end of part 2 he says, "Even the Bible hurt to read. I read some verses(meaning verses on Judgment Day and hell), and I was not okay with this. And I found myself censoring my own Bible, only reading the parts that portrayed the Jesus I was in love with."

That statement alone shows clearly that this young man was in love with a false god indeed, a false Jesus. A Jesus who only bestowed grace and mercy and love and forgiveness. It was not the God of the Bible, the God who is an all consuming fire in His awesome holiness and majesty. It was not the God who executed eternal justice and wrath on unrepentant evildoers.

One thing that seems to have contributed to this false view of God is the lack of preaching on the holiness and eternal justice of God. All or most of what he heard in his church experience was probably about the grace and mercy of Jesus. That kind of unbalanced and unbiblical preaching and experience is rampant today in many evangelical churches and has been producing an untold number of false conversions.

We need to get back to that old time gospel and old time religion that contributes to more sound conversions.


 2011/5/8 21:01Profile

Joined: 2010/11/17
Posts: 53

 Re: Deconversion: I can't say this guy is lying.

Dearly beloved brethren,

We often look at the externals of things and not the heart of the matter. Not to judge someones heart, but to try to find that core issue and resolve it. We all go about this in deferent ways, but we all always have common denominators along the way. The enemy attacks us in the same ways just in deferent issues. This young man in the video was being attacked no deferent than you and I. The deference is in us and what we choose.

The sermons by Jim Logan has enlightened me a lot and helped me to discern a lot of my thought processes. We have three basic core thoughts. Seeds if you will. One, from God. Two, from ourselves, and three, satan. Again these are just seeds we choose how much they grow.

If we choose to dwell in those thoughts of evil or even just idle thoughts were losing ground. Allowing that room to grow and fester. This is exactly what this young man has done.

I deal with sexual sin. Everyone has a sin or temptation they must deal with. Some may not seem as big as others, but this is where we must look at the core and not the sin its self. This young mans outer sin is unbelief, but it is because he has not stood ground on what he knew what true about God. Why did he love God in the first place? There must have been some truth in his beginning walk, but he dwelt on the seed of unbelief. We must cast those evil seeds along with self seeds out and meditate on whatever is true, honest, just, pure ect.. Phl 4:8.

WE ARE AT WAR!! Theres more forces out there then ourselves. Our heart is wicked, give it room to grow and whats the outcome? I'm not saying be willing stupid and cast all questions out, but look deeper into why you are asking those questions and where they are coming from. Whats the influence? Trust me we all are being influence by one of the three forces.

I pray this may exhort you all.
In much Love,

 2011/5/8 22:46Profile


We are at war, Joe and unfortunately the Church has not shown up for the battle. They don't understand the enemy or his devices so how can they understand how to do battle and overcome.

Not everyone that is living in defeat is a false convert. In fact, many are Christians.

That is clear throughout the Word of God. We have so many examples in the Word of God's people walking with God, then straying and getting in a horrible predicament, taken captive by their enemies and spiraling down into complete confusion of soul.

We see here that spiritual bondage and oppression from the enemy all starts with our own responsibility.

Psa 106:13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:
Psa 106:14 But LUSTED exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.
Psa 106:15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.

How many of us have experience this leanness? I would say, probably everyone.

If we don't repent we then become SUBJECTED to the ENEMY. The works of the flesh open us up to deeper oppression from Satan.

Psa 106:39 Thus were they DEFILED with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.
Psa 106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.
Psa 106:41 And HE GAVE THEM into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them RULED OVER THEM.
Psa 106:42 Their enemies also OPPRESSED them, and they were BROUGHT INTO SUBJECTION under their hand.

It is a pitiful state that we sometimes find ourselves or our brethren in and our natural inclination is to think that maybe they aren't saved.

Psa 106:43 Many times did he deliver them; but they provoked him with their counsel, and were brought low for their iniquity.

I think what strikes me the most about this Psalm is the compassion of God for His people even though they sinned and rebelled and were brought into horrible spiritual bondage. The discernment we need is how to minister to those that have become captive to the enemy so as to show them the way out of their darkness, the way of deliverance. They may very well have had a conversion, yet were brought back into bondage through their sin.

Psa 106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.
Psa 106:46 He made them also to be pitied of all those that carried them captives.
Psa 106:47 Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise.
Psa 106:48 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.

Neh 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, WHEN THEY CRIED unto thee, THOU HEARDEST THEM from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies THOU GAVEST THEM SAVIOURS, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

God will give them compassionate brethren who have understanding and know how to lead them out of darkness. This should be our heart for the hurting. There are many that are saved, yet confused, buffeted, hurting and in bondage and do not know their way out.

I too, am praying for you, Codek.


 2011/5/8 23:39

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