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Hi codek,

I think most of us here live in a Christian cocoon, we love to be on this forum among believers but we have no guts to actually going out into the real world. I'm not saying this about anyone specific but I think it's just the general consensus here. Most people know the bible very well but i don't see people going out into the real world and dealing with real people and real problems.

It may be that in the blare and glare of modern American Christianity, this part of the Sermon in the Mount was missed out. It's probably the reason you have the impression that most if not all of us have nothing to do with real people outside the forum. You GUESS that because you don't see people talking about what they've been doing. But they are obeying Jesus.

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
I think true believers should fellowship with the lost, understand where they are coming from and minister to them.

I think 'fellowship' is the wrong word here. If we are fellowshipping with their unbelief and lostness, we cannot help them return to God. What Jesus did was to set up a spiritual dissonance with those He spent time with, so that they FELT their distance from God, at the same time as knowing that He loved them. The best example of this is Zacchaeus, to whom Jesus didn't preach at all, but who came to the conclusion he had some repenting to do. How? Because spending time with Jesus made him see himself more clearly.
So by that premise, if I really believed in God, I would be willing to test it against anything because it would be the absolute TRUTH.

PS God's word tells us not to put Him to any tests (in the way that you said here). If I've misunderstood you, please try again to explain what you mean? Thanks.

 2011/5/7 13:08


Praying for you as well. You know I am. "Lord I believe, but help my unbelief!"

Thank you. This means a lot to me.

 2011/5/7 13:29


After watching some of these videos it is clear the emotional music which is soulish, the very sensual voice of this individual is clear that he is probably into homosexuality, as he said in the video he struggled with sensuality. Having only a view of the fatherhood of God and not the fear of God will lead to this type of christianity and people falling away from this faith. Sadly many who have these views don't really know God to start with.

Very true. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
But however misguided his zeal was, I can't say he wasn't being genuine about seeking God at church. I wouldn't understand what other motive he would have for all the actions he took.

 2011/5/7 13:33

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Deconversion: I can't say this guy is lying.

codek wrote:
I mean I'm not really sure what kind of christian I am today. I'm so jaded by all the fake christians I've seen, I don't know what to think but one fact remains is that I'm earnestly trying to seek God and really believe to the point that I have lost most things and my condition is looking very bleak.

Brother Codek, there are fake Christians everywhere; the churches are littered with them.

This video is terribly sad, I agreed wholeheartedly with several statements he made but this one in particular: “What we were doing with worship was wrong... at night the hundreds of us gathered in front of a stage and a huge sound system for worship and as I watched the others, I started seeing it like a flock of seagulls when you toss bread, crowded and leaning their necks in for the food.” I have always thought that about how churches “do” worship! They play three or four songs, shout halleluyah and then move on with “their” program for God.

I heard Carter Conlon and others say similar things to this: Every person who going to be anything for God has a great struggle of faith at some time in their life, whether it’s from sickness or questioning everything. Some make it through to know that they know that they know and some don’t (it sounds like this boy on the video did not make it). I pray you and hope you make it through brother and do not give up on God.

I must ask you this: what are you willing to give up personally to know Christ? I know that you’ve already given up all your money and other material things but what about you? Are you willing to give up food for a period of fasting and time away from the computer and TV with nothing but your Bible, notebook paper and pens (edit: until you hear from God)???

Brother, God bless you and I will be praying for you to make it to the other side of this crisis of faith,


 2011/5/7 13:34Profile


Everyone who has wooo hoooo’d a supposed great comment has failed to see that this man, codek, needs prayer. He is losing his faith if he hasn’t already. Should you really be patting each other’s backs (at a time like this)? God bless, Lisa PS codek, I will comment more on the videos later today (I'm watching them now).

true words of wisdom

 2011/5/7 13:35


I think it's very important to not glorify the backslidden state but to hit the ground running Toward GOD with all one's might if there's even the slightest hint that faith is failing and doubts begin to flood in or one notices that they prefer to be with others who are not walking-the-walk.

One Brother recommended this booklet from Zac.

Instead of focusing on the ones who have fallen - we need to focus on those who have a message of how to get back up.

There are others as well.

Keith Daniel's message - "When the Godly fall".

And "Walking in the Light" by Oswald Smith

And "The Christian Race" by Keith Daniel

The Church is like a Hospital.
When someone comes in and their "life is ebbing" - there's no time to sit around and discuss "how" the life has come so close to death or is in coronary arrest - but the only course of action is Immediate action toward 'restoring Life'.

The more time spent watching youtubes like that - will not help one soul that is teeter-tottering on the brink of spiritual death.

To fear the LORD is 'the beginning' of wisdom.

Start with 'fear' of "the loss of Life" and start emergency measures to restore the life to any soul who's spiritual-heart monitor is beginning to 'flat-line'.

The longer he stays in that state - the higher the chance for brain damage (so to speak). He needs oxygen first - and then the needed procedures and medications to restart the heart and getting it functioning again.

The Holy Spirit - Prayer - The WORD - messages by men who know the heart of man.

You have our prayers - the rest is up to you. Get to GOD's ER and we'll back you - knowing that GOD is waiting and Always is for Any one who comes to Him for help.
He's always there for even the prodigals - IF they want to come Home. The fault is never with Him.

 2011/5/7 13:37


Just to explain myself. I'm not trying to bash this forum. I do not have a gift of words as most of you have already noticed. It just comes out. If I thought Obama did something wrong, I would tell him. I'm not trying to be mean, the truth in my mind just comes out.

I am active on this forum because I believe that people here actual do read the bible and truly seek God which 99% of christians don't even do. I respect your thoughts, comments, suggestions very much and that is why I continue to post.

This forum is a blessing because I have found sermons which are really hard to find and this is where I found sound teaching and doctrine. Paris Reidhead(ten shekels), Art Katz and others.

This is not a gathering of luke warm christians here.

 2011/5/7 13:43

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37213
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11



One major problem to be honest with you is guilt over sin, failures and a lack of desire to see God as He really is and sin as it is. I am not sure if you have had a moral failture or repeated sin in your life that guilt has knawed away to doubt. Please see the scriptures as your only hope. As pilgrim in pilgrims progress it said to him: "FLEE from the wrath to come."

That is your only hope. I hope many can continue to pray for you here.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/5/7 13:46Profile

 my dear Codek

what a truly blessed post from you. it was a "broken bread" post, vulnerable, authentic, real.

i dont know your circumstance in life, meaning the temporal world around you, ie, if God forbid, you're getting hammered in your personal life, job, family, but if you allow me, may i go out on a limb here?

i feel that your faith is strong, otherwise you wouldnt have made that second post in such a transparent vulnerable manner. Your faith might FEEL like its flagging, but in the secret place of your heart, you're holding onto the Hem of Jesus, out of sheer desperation, because in the end, we both know, Jesus is Real.

forget about all the side trips man takes on the road of religion, right now, obviously, it's just between you and Jesus. Just like Jacob on the bank Jabbok River, all alone, scared out of his wits, in the deep of night, and who did he wrestle with? He wrestled with Jesus, and said, 'I will not let you go, until you bless me'.

Jesus gave Jacob a new name, Israel, that night on the Jabbok, was holy desperation. forgive my audacity, but thats what you're going thru.

If your faith was truly shipwrecked, you wouldnt even be posting on this forum, because i know you know, in the final analysis, this second, me included, your brothers and sisters are praying for YOU....Jesus is praying for you, and my prayer for you, one i pray for myself is what the disciples prayed, and its one of the most simple:

Increase our Faith!

When you look back on this time in your life, y'know, just being crushed, broken, bended, cant even hear God, and you come out the other end, you will view it as one of the most blessed times in your life.

that sounds strange, doesnt it? You might be thinking, "i'm wandering around in the most desolate place in my life, and this guy is telling me it's a blessed time?

Yeh, i am. Because i been there, and i fully expect to sojourn out into the desolate places again, You know the Book of the Numbers..the Hebrew name for the Book is B'Midbar, translates "in the desert"...or in the desolate place. Did you ever notice, when Jesus had to talk with Our Father God, He always went to the desolate places?

Woke up before dawn, went to the desolate places and prayed? thats in the 1st Chapter of Mark.....or mountainsides....alone. i FULLY believe and am convinced that we recieve the greatest revelations of God's Love, of God's REALNESS, when we are in the desolate places.

Blessed as it is, you have to get FAR FAR AWAY from Jerusalem, because religion kills and Jesus saves, thats why John the Baptizer was on the other side of the Jordan, that beautiful freak, i love him so, he couldnt stand the religiostic stench of the pharisee's, and their pride, and their show of religion, their money making scams and schemes, their self righteous chest pounding.

The abuse he heaped upon them, called them a broood of vipers, and the tragic thing, the neo-pharisees are still with us today, may God have mercy on them, may He annoint their hearts with the Love of Messiah, so i understand your dillusionment with the current state of affairs, but its been like this for a very long time, look at Eli's degenerate "priest" sons, the phony little game they were running at their father Eli's house, so God sent a little man, a little boy named Samuel to set things right.

God created you Codek, for such a moment, and the second you believe like Jeremiah did, "i'm only a child, what can i do?"....God has you RIGHT WHERE HE WANTS YOU, broken, bleeding and battered. That might sound cruel, but He loves you like a Father, and sometimes a Father, whether it be our earthly fathers, or Yahweh, subjects us to loving discipline....and it never feels good when its happening, but even if your clinging by your very fingernails, in desperation to this Most Holy Faith, forget about the dross of man, keep your eyes focused on Jesus, and He WILL NEVER LET YOU GO...Jesus PROMISED that, and in Him there are no lies.

God created you Codek for such a moment, and what moment would that be? i believe with all my heart body mind and soul, in the Holy Spirit, that ONE man, with the Glory of God on him, can spend one hour, two hours...whatever, in heart rending prayer ascending to the Throne, and change the world.

and that man could be you, search your heart,you know i speak the Truth in Christ.

two last things, one, i really wish i could be with you in the person right this second, just silently praying, whatever...talking, praying, crying, laughing, but i'm with you in spirit.

the second thing is, and i beg your leave on this, i know you're probably sick of hearing sermons, but many times in the past, when i found myself pressed, bewildered, hurt...i had stumbled upon a really intense beautiful bit of exhortation from Michael Brown, like me, another Jew who follows Jesus, called "Holy Desperation"....i cant explain in human words, what happened when i listened to this on my knees, in the dark....but trust me, give it a listen, and if led, listen to it on your knees:

i love you brother, i'm with you, more importantly, infinitely more so, Jesus is with you, neil

 2011/5/7 14:09

Joined: 2010/5/1
Posts: 25
Québec, Canada

 Re: Deconversion: I can't say this guy is lying.

As it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one; there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God." "There is no fear of God before their eyes." (Romains 3:10,18)

This is true: "There is none that seeks after God."

I'm praying for you Codek.

Benjamin A.

 2011/5/7 14:12Profile

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