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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The fourth commandment

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Br. Ron wrote:

Quote:
It is interesting where Sabbath comes in the list. The commandments prior to this are all God-orientated while those after this are people orientated. If we were to divide the commandments up into Godwards and manwards where would be place Sabbath? The standard interpretation was that it was Godwards, but Christ challenged this and put it in the manwards list; And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mar 2:27-28 KJV)




Br. Ron is correct. The Sabbath was made for man. Many look to obeying the Law, and the consequences of not obeying. But what is the purpose for the Sabbath? It is for man, and is meant to fill men. Again look to Isaiah 56 and 58. What is the right understanding?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/12/7 12:14Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Br. Robert wrote:

Quote:
There is a bondage that existed under the Old Covenant in which the people were afraid to die. We are also told there remains a rest to the people of God. That statement has a lot of eschatological ramifications; but I think we can see clearly that we under the New Covenant have a 'rest' in the here and now that those who were all their lifetime in fear did not



Listen to Isaiah 58:

Is. 58:1 “Cry aloud, spare not;
Lift up your voice like a trumpet;
Tell My people their transgression,
And the house of Jacob their sins.
2 Yet they seek Me daily,
And delight to know My ways,
As a nation that did righteousness,
And did not forsake the ordinance of their God.
They ask of Me the ordinances of justice;
They take delight in approaching God.
3 “Why have we fasted,’ they say, “and You have not seen?
Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’
‘In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure,
And exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate,
And to strike with the fist of wickedness.
You will not fast as you do this day,
To make your voice heard on high.
5 Is it a fast that I have chosen,
A day for a man to afflict his soul?
Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush,
And to spread out sackcloth and ashes?
Would you call this a fast,
And an acceptable day to the LORD?
6 “Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To loose the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the heavy burdens,
To let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;
When you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning,
Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
And your righteousness shall go before you;
The glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, “Here I am.’
‘If you take away the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,
10 If you extend your soul to the hungry
And satisfy the afflicted soul,
Then your light shall dawn in the darkness,
And your darkness shall be as the noonday.

Do these verses speak of the bondage you speak too?

What is God's solution?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/12/7 12:22Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Do these verses speak of the bondage you speak too?



I don't know that there is a correlation at all. My point is that Hebrews tells us clearly that through fear of death they were all their lifetime subject unto bondage. The passage in question is a treatise on genuine repentance. Yet, even if they repent they can only glean the maximum benefits allowed under the covenant. This makes them to fall way short of 'a better covenant' that is established on 'better promises.'

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/12/7 12:42Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

The seventh day sabbath isn't the same as "sabbath days." 1 John 2:4 reads, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him." Why is it, that, christians believe it's ok to break the fourth commandment, but not the other nine? Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

 2004/12/7 22:36Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

"And they continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart." (Acts 2:46). The christians fellowshipped daily, but still kept the sabbath (Acts 13:14,27,42,44;15:21;18:4). He is the "Lord of the Sabbath". The "Lord's Day" has always been the sabbath. No man has the authority to change any of the Ten Commandments.

 2004/12/7 23:03Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: lets see here

well I'm no rocket scientist but where the word refers to Jacob---Isa 58 it refers to the nation of Israel. I believe we were talking about the sabbath as a Law in order to obtain a blessing from God where we keep it and we'er blessed for having kept it. Well brothers---you guys can keep as much of the law as you want. I am only righteous through(in the agency of ) Jesus Christ. In his FINISHED works and I take it no further. I add nothing to it and I rest in it fully presuaded that He(Jesus) is able to keep/complete/finish/ that which has been comitted unto him (my eternal soul) against that day.I don't say this in a demeaning manor or trying to be hurtful verbally , but I refuse to be brought under a law that better men than me couldn't keep.Grace , Grace, what a wonderful thing. As the old hymn writter said My hope has found a resting place not in device or creed.......On Christ the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand...


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D.Miller

 2004/12/7 23:21Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: rember this

The early assemby of Jewish believers(i pick my words very carefully) were still jewish or hebrew--. The Idea of "church" was introduced by the Apostle Paul and was very gentle and was an original thought as to the organizational context of believers. Before Paul outside of one instance with Peter -n- Cornilius , the gentles were still excluded from the promises of God and of Jesus as Messiah , and inorder to even begin to know about Jesus gentile had to become proyslites(sp. mistake--srry).


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D.Miller

 2004/12/7 23:30Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Question???

What is the sabbath? or better yet how do you keep the sabbath?even beter than that---how does the sabbath fit into the NT church and the believers practical expression? Do we buy gas ---food---watch tv---listen to the radio??? I can if you like draw the line very very fine on the keeping of the sabbath if you like and conclude every man, woman and child guilty of its breach , I believe the heart of the sabbath is finding rest in the finished work of Christ and the fellowship with the Father, but its meant to be an every day expression where we take the sabbath rest in us --with us daily, and do the works of Jesus Christ in the world.


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D.Miller

 2004/12/7 23:42Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
"And they continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart." (Acts 2:46). The christians fellowshipped daily, but still kept the sabbath (Acts 13:14,27,42,44;15:21;18:4). He is the "Lord of the Sabbath". The "Lord's Day" has always been the sabbath. No man has the authority to change any of the Ten Commandments.


Your verses above to 'prove sabbath keeping' don't do what you intend them to do. These simply report that on the Sabbath they visited the synagogue. What better way to preach the gospel to the Jews. These are just 'date stamps' not proof of Sabbath keeping. Sabbath is the name of a day; it still is in Polish. I frequently preach in Poland 'on Sabbath' but I am not thereby 'keeping Sabbath'.

poniedziałek
wtorek
środa
czwartek
piątek
[b]sobota[/b] i.e. [i]Sabbath[/i]
niedziela

The same would be true for Belorussian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Catalan, Croatian, Czech, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, and Ukrainian. It is just the name of a day in the week.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/12/8 2:52Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The seventh day sabbath isn't the same as "sabbath days." 1 John 2:4 reads, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him." Why is it, that, christians believe it's ok to break the fourth commandment, but not the other nine? Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."



I can only speak for [i]this[/i] Christian rather than 'christians', but I don't 'keep' any of the commandments given by Moses to the people of Israel. By His grace I 'fulfil the righteous requirement' of the law. [b]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these [u]two commandments[/u] hang all the law and the prophets. [/b] (Mat 22:37-40 KJV)

These 'two' commandments are the only ones that apply to me as a Christian.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/12/8 3:06Profile





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