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warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Circular Reasoning...

Maybe I can get someone to analyze this for me. I was in a blog, and they were accusing Christians of using circular reasoning, but I came up with this. Please read:

'The circular argument for the bible is wrong anyway. From what I understand, circluar reasoning is when a specfic source is quoted to be true, then that SAME source is used to justify that it is true. For example: The Book of John states: "For God so loved the world..." Then somone asks, how do you know that is true? Then the response is, because the book of John says it's true. That is indeed a circular argument. HOWEVER, we must remember that using the bible AS A WHOLE, is not, I repeat, IS NOT, circular reasoning. We must rememeber that we are using 66 different sources to justify our reasonings. We are not using one book but 66 different sources. If you want to be really technical, 40 different sources (the authors).

This may be a rabbit trail from you guys are talking about, but I figured I would throw this out there. Let me know what you think John.'


With this said, let me know if I am wrong in writing this. Thanks for your help.

 2011/4/26 4:48Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: Circular Reasoning...

That actually makes total sense, and is actually the miracle of the bible, its not mear coincidence all 66 books refer and referance and have forshadow of one individual in fact its quite amazing to see even four different accounts of Christ so radically similar in nature.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/4/26 7:16Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

hey warriorforgod

i dont know if what i have is useful or not but in my job i teach clients how to get out of circular reasoning. if a person has circular reasoning patterns they never find the awnser as the question always leads back to a problem not a solution. There isnt circular reasoning anywhere in the bible that i know because the problem always has an awnser. People interpreting the bible may come to a circular reasoning due to their lack of knowledge and guidence of the holy spirit when reading them.


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karl rashleigh

 2011/4/26 8:55Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

hey warriorforgod

i dont know if what i have is useful or not but in my job i teach clients how to get out of circular reasoning. if a person has circular reasoning patterns they never find the awnser as the question always leads back to a problem not a solution. There isnt circular reasoning anywhere in the bible that i know because the problem always has an awnser. People interpreting the bible may come to a circular reasoning due to their lack of knowledge and guidence of the holy spirit when reading them.


_________________
karl rashleigh

 2011/4/26 8:56Profile









 Re: Circular Reasoning...

Quote:
if a person has circular reasoning patterns they never find the awnser as the question always leads back to a problem not a solution.

Hi crusader,

Thanks for sharing this. I've never thought of it before in those terms, but I remember a time when I was trapped in circular reasoning.

Put very simply, the solution is always in God's hands, and until I began learning to look away from my own ability to figure things out, I didn't get any solutions to the circles.

 2011/4/26 9:16
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Crusader, you are going to have to give me an example of what you are talking about, because I don't understand where you are going with this.

 2011/4/26 9:55Profile









 Re: Circular Reasoning...

WoG,

Woud you please explain what "circular argument for the bible" is? I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but would like to. Your logic seems correct, but I would appreciate more context.

Thanks.

 2011/4/26 13:14
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Hey there Aaron,

I believe what he is trying to say is Atheist will accuse Christians of using only one source to prove an argument. Like The bible proclaims itself as the Infallible word of God, how do we know that? Well because the bible says so, that would be circluar reasoning.

What WoG is saying though is we don't have just one Source but 44 different Sources from a variety of times and places that say very similar things seperate from each other. Thus Each individual books counts as a source rather than just the bible. How do we know the bible account of Christ is true? Well because we have 4 different accounts of Christ all very close to the same from 4 different people. I work with police officers one of the things their trained to do is listen to Eye Witnesses and get all the stories to see if everything lines up, we not only have 4 different Gospel accounts from 4 different authors but we also have various books of History that speak of Christ Jesus, thus strengthening our evidence. Circuluar reasoning would have stopped at "The bible is true cause it says its true." We however can break out of that reasoning because we have more than one account from multiple vantage points and time.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/4/27 3:49Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

Circular reasoning is a formal logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proved is assumed implicitly or explicitly in one of the premises

A circular reasoning example
“Carrots cause death, all people who ate carrots in 1833 are now dead, this proves that carrots cause death”

Formal reasoning
All people in 1850 are now dead as the average life span was 50 to 70 years old. Carrots were a popular food source 161 years ago.

It is the phrasing of the question that defines the reasoning as to whether it is circular reasoning or formal reasoning, it is important not to awnser a question until it is clear as to what is actually being asked. it can be used as a verbal trap in conversation or in our thought patterns. the best person I have seen with answering this is Ravi Zacharias, he will always define the question first as to whether or not it is a valed statement. You can see his videos on youtube especially the question and answer videos.


as i stated i wasnt sure whether my responce was useful or not and i am fully open to exploration of views towards my understanding of it. if it wasnt helpful sorry


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karl rashleigh

 2011/4/27 5:59Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re:

hi mgulder

thankyou, that is what i was basically saying. but i would also add not only the bible backs up what it means but history, science and witnessess also add weight to destroy any circular reasoning shot at the bible. ravi zacharies will use many different resources to back up the bible even using the persons own sources of arguments to dispell their position this takes Gods wisdom to acuratley weild the sword in this manner. Many non believers that read the bible see contridictions and circular reasoning because they do not know the way in which to read it. example the english language has alot of words created in its language. where as hebrew doesnt there for one word can have many different meanings depending on the context it is used.


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karl rashleigh

 2011/4/27 10:25Profile





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