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 Re: What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation

Quote:
LOL I meant to say slippery slope,

Matthew, that's really funny! I'm so glad I asked. This is the best laugh I've had for days!!!

Now I know why you're online so early! I'd assumed you were 'waking up' with the kids!

 2011/4/25 8:16
Wordizlife
Member



Joined: 2007/2/28
Posts: 86


 Re: What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation

I'm just going to say that old joe's arguments are dispelling a lot of the bondage I was feeling because of certain doctrines.


_________________
Robin

 2011/4/25 12:00Profile









 Re: What is the Gospel- Comparing it to Lordship Salvation


Quote:
I'm just going to say that old joe's arguments are dispelling a lot of the bondage I was feeling because of certain doctrines.

As long as what remains, is biblical - amen.

 2011/4/25 12:33









 Re:

ATG

It is good of you to mention this.

Quote:
As long as what remains, is biblical - amen.



“MacArthur laments, ‘Contemporary Christendom too often accepts a shallow repentance that bears no fruit’ (p. 96 TGATJ). The recommended cure for this malady is to require more of the seeking sinner than the Bible requires. Instead of ‘merely’ believing on the finished work of Christ the inquiring soul must also be willing to have Christ as Lord over every area of his life." Pickering review of TGATJ.

LS requires more of the seeking sinner than the Bible requires, which is exactly where LS falls in the ditch and stays there.

When one tries to be “saved” according to the terms of LS, they find themselves looking at themselves rather than Christ. IE “Do I have enough fruit”, “Did I turn from sin enough”, “Did I repent enough”, “Was my repentance genuine”. There is no Christ in any of that, it is all an inward look. Whereas the Bible proclaims, “Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

LS fails in all of the following:
1) The nature of man after salvation
2) The definition of repentance
3) Replaces faith in Christ with the measure of fruit
4) Causes the unwise to be “comparing themselves with themselves


Ultimately, it is poison, stay away from it.

OJ

 2011/4/25 23:59
shadowking
Member



Joined: 2011/4/26
Posts: 1


 Re:

ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can't hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can'...t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.‎1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable

 2011/4/26 0:01Profile









 Re:

Wordizlife

Quote:
I'm just going to say that old joe's arguments are dispelling a lot of the bondage I was feeling because of certain doctrines.



That is what the gospel does....LS is no gospel.


OJ

 2011/4/26 0:01









 Re:

MGuldner

Quote:
BUT at the same time with my belief comes reaction to that belief, a belief isn't much of a belief if it doesn't cause a response or reaction in your daily life.



That may be true, but how much response or reaction in your daily life would you look for to have an assurance of salvation?

As soon as you ask that question, all of a sudden the focus is off of Christ. ALL assurance should be resting in the promise of God, never in the performance of man.

The next problem is that most of that which passes for fruit is merely religious fodder. Any here that signed up to blood sacrifice their own children? How about any that marched around a city 13 times expecting the walls to fall? Probably not. What passes for fruit these days is merely commitment to religion or religious exercises, and is the same fruit as that which the Pharisees could display.

Fruit would be trusting God when you don't know where He is going or how He is going to get there, the predictable is left to religionists. Since fruit is unpredictable, how much should I look for and how should I measure it when it is unpredictable? I can't, I need to be led by the Spirit of God in the matter.

Next, EVERY biblical fruit can be emulated enough to persuade both others and self that one actually has some of this stuff the Bible calls fruit. Worse than that, when it comes to judging fruit in oneself (or others for that matter), some are apt to be more charitable, and others less charitable (think smoking flax and bruised reed), so with what judgment should fruit be judged?

Therefore, when I need to spend time waiting upon the Spirit of God for any true answers, why waste it looking at somewhere that I am not even sure what the actual answer could be? Look in the right place....

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


OJ

 2011/4/26 0:37
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Oh friend, the reaction isn't the focus, its a side-effect. When you take a pill to fix a problem with your body many people don't even consider the side-effects unless of course they are worse than the disease. Their focus is fixing the problem which is why they are taking the pill. Holiness and Love are good side-effects and so when recieving them from the Pill of Christ the focus always remains on Christ, not of works but naturally being produces from the Seed of Christ in us.

I don't pull my assurance from my works nor my fruit, I trust in Christ and His righteousness working in me. I have tried the old do it yourself technic it doesn't work and you tend to fail miserably. I can't do it I need Christ and Him alone for restoration.

Biblical Fruit isn't something to be pursued but grows naturally and Fruit can be predictable by what seed it comes from and by what tree it grows, you won't walk up to an apple tree hoping and expecting oranges, and if the apples are sickly then there must be something wrong within the tree itself.

Biblical Fruit is simple enough, Galatians 5:22-23 tells us "22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." These are what should naturally overflow from us as the Seed of Christ in us grows and matures. But even this seed can be hindered by our hearts condition and immaturity, 13And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14"The sower sows the word. 15"These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16"In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away. 18"And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20"And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold."

Fruit is determined by the Heart Condition of the individual, Good soil though is not determined by us, but by the working of the Holy Spirit, It is HE that works the soil and tills it and helps us remove the weeds that choke out the fruit. Our submission to Him and his work again is a side-effect of belief, from it flows a willingness to do what He asks of us and a willingness to Love Him more and take joy in His working.

I believe Old Joe, that you and I are actually pretty close to believing something very similar if not matching, Christ Jesus does it all we simply believe He is doing what He said He would do in us. But to wrap this long post up Fruit will come as a biproduct of belief in Christ, True belief that is, because even the demons believe and they tremble however they don't have the precious Seed of Christ working in them, but we do, Expect a harvest.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/4/26 1:20Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

Read Romans 6 and ask yourself this question: Who is my Lord? (i.e., Who is my master?)

1st option) Is sin your master? Then you are dead in sin. You are an unbeliever.
2nd option) Is Christ your Lord? If you died to sin, you are alive in Christ Jesus our Lord, and thus a slave to righteousness. You are a believer.

You have only two options. Either you are a slave to sin, or you have died to sin (and so have been freed from sin). Either you are a slave to sin, or you are a slave to righteousness.

Really, read Romans 6 and ask yourself, "Who is my Lord? Who is my master?"

Beware of those who have a form of godliness, but deny its power (2Timothy 3:5).

 2011/4/26 6:52Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Christ is definitely my Lord, I believe, True belief will cause submission to Christ. Right thinking of Christ is vital to the Christian walk. He is Holy, Righteous, and True, I submit to His teachings because I believe He is these things BUT also its not me working to do these things but Christ working in me. I had my turn and failed now its Christ time to rule and reign in my heart because as you are already stating I am now dead and its no longer I who live but Christ now lives in me and IS my life but not because I worked so hard at it but because I believed and trusted in Christ and as a result He held to His Promise to make an abode in me. Now my flesh has no other choice but to die because Christ in me compells this because with and in Christ I am something Completely New under Grace.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/4/26 7:11Profile





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