Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes
| Why do king James posts attract so much attention???|
Well the first reason is the whole bible edition/translation controversy in itself! Its something that (I think) will never go away...right up until Christs' 2nd coming, it (the debate) will be with us ... No doubt for many more years to come. So that's the 1st thing. Secondly like it or speak disparagingly of it the (kjv) is a translation work admired and trusted by many millions of people worldwide. And thus find it difficult to make the transition to Newer contemporary versions! And all arguments aside at this point...but some people...just don't trust newer versions...for whatever reasons...known particularly...only to them. Some claim "others" have made to many additions and/or subtractions! And subsequently (these changes) don't sit comfortably with them. So accordingly they find themselves in the process of becoming...what is now...described as (King James only). And this is quote the "consumers" right of choice ...anymore than being Niv and Nasb only is. The third reason is "faults" what do I mean by faults? Well sticklers for King James only contend (and often earnestly) newer versions have not always conformed with common previous textus receptus ( from which previous translations adhered to) making a more uniform and accurate rendering (of any new work) some claim newer versions have arrived at different renderings of certain passages due to this straying from uniform "textus" receptus! And at this juncture it should be noted by the reader that I'm simply outlining the reasons. (Not taking up position) fourthly its happy birthday James! Its 400 years since this publication first began taking occupancy in the lounge rooms, bedrooms, suitcases, travel bags, and our bookshelves since its creation and inception. Some 400 years ago. Love it or disdain it! It has stood the test of time and is still considered the worlds most trusted bible (perhaps not the most popular) but certainly loved and trusted! That being said: the significance of 400 years was garanteed to both stir and arouse emotions...on both sides of the pro and con ledger. And just in case anybody forgot to say it ...yes..."happy 400th James" !!
| 2011/4/21 19:14||Profile|
| Re: Why do king James posts attract so much attention???|
Some 400 years ago. Love it or disdain it! It has stood the test of time and is still considered the worlds most trusted bible
I agree sonofthunder it has stood the tests of time.
When i first became a christian i found it diffcult to understand many things in my fleshly mind when reading the king james but the lord transformed my spirit through it every time i read it to learn more about him. I use the king james because it is the only one translation that i can use with my study tools. I have faith that Jesus has and will continue to lead me to know him better through his word. At the end of the day it is the Lords spirit that walks me through his word not me and if i do not understand something then i chew the cud until the understanding comes.
I can testify that i have on many ocassions heard preachers preaching from other translations of the bible and i was unable to map in my mind or spirit where they were walking with their message.
I supose I would ask myself the question which is more important to me? My personal relationship with Jesus or my scriptural knowledge about him or both in equality.
| 2011/4/21 21:00||Profile|
| Re: |
Yes, Happy Birthday! It's hard to improve on perfection. Everything is downhill after this.
This is a very charged issue, you are correct and for many, many good reasons. And it is for these reasons that the discussion should continue so that important issues may be brought to light.
The Bereans had teachable spirits, but today, people want to shut discussions down. The Bereans, "received the word with all readiness of mind". And, then they searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
They were open, teachable.
Words are important to God and they should be equally important to us, because WORDS CONVEY MEANING and AFFECT OUR UNDERSTANDING.
I am aware of verses where MAN calls the GOSPEL or the PREACHING OF THE CROSS, FOOLISHNESS.
1Co 1:18 For the PREACHING OF THE CROSS is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
OR HERE: PREACHING CHRIST CRUCIFED IS FOOLISHNESS.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But, I am not aware of anyplace in the Word where WHERE GOD CALLS THE GOSPEL, FOOLISH! Until NOW.
Here is the KJV Verse. Read carefully and tell me what is the object of foolishness here?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe.
Some people want to say that all new versions say the same thing as the KJV.
But if the Bibles say different things, then how can they be the same?
Look at these verses: Do they say the same thing?
1Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe.
King James Bible
1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in God's wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the FOOLISHNESS OF THE MESSAGE preached.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
1Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the FOOLISHNESS OF WHAT WAS PREACHED to save those who believe.
New International Version which is published by Rupert Murdock
1Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the FOOLISHNESS OF THE MESSAGE preached to save those who believe.
New American Standard Bible
1Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the FOOLISHNESS OF THE MESSAGE preached to save those who believe.
New King James Version
1Corinthians 1:21 For when the world with all its earthly wisdom failed to perceive and recognize and know God by means of its own philosophy, God in His wisdom was pleased through the foolishness of preaching [salvation, procured by Christ and to be had through Him], to save those who believed (who clung to and trusted in and relied on Him).
In the KJB "the foolishness of preaching" is GOD'S point of view of the METHOD HE has chosen for people to be saved!
The "foolishness of the message preached." in the HCSB and other versions, is a HERESY of GOD'S point of view of the MESSAGE, NOT the method!
It is GOD calling the Gospel 'FOOLISHNESS'!
THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN!
Let's make something very clear. Preaching is an exercise of a spiritual gift given to fallen men who have been redeemed. Preaching is a HUMAN event. The Gospel is the everlasting message. It is the preaching METHOD that is considered foolish by men, not the MESSAGE by God.
Does your god have a foolish gospel?
Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Galatians 1:7 (KJV) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ephesians 1:12 (KJV) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
"....the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation" -- Is the truth foolish also?
This is one of many, many reasons that people consider the New Age Bible versions, per-versions. They are perverting the Word. Please don't be insulted. You should not be. You did not do this. You should instead be about ready to vomit. I sure was when I found these things out.
Maybe these translators don't know it, I don't know. God will sort all that out, but I don't want words like "God was well-pleased through the FOOLISHNESS OF THE MESSAGE" to get down into my spirit.
400 years! Wow! Happy Birthday, indeed.
If you consider yourself teachable, listen to this to hear about the "Great Switch" and when and how it happened.
The Text is the Issue:
Don't let the little guy's scratchy high voice get in the way of hearing what he is saying. It was a bit bothersome to me, but I "struggled" through. ;-)
If you want to download his series you better hurry, it expires 4/29.
| 2011/4/21 23:06|
| Re: |
i had a smile while reading your post. The question i supose which is common on my thoughts when seeing the discussions about which bible is better, always apears to be more about who is more interlectually stronger then the other (not meaning this post). After many many studies 16 years ago with this same subject i came to the conclusion that if Jesus wanted me to know him and grow in him then he would provide the way. i remember a testimony i heard many years ago of a lady that was imprisoned and never was aloud to read or have a bible the whole time of her imprisonment. That Lady had a great knowledge of who Jesus was and lead many sinners to the cross and gloryfied the lord Mightily. Yet if you quoted a scripture at her she wouldnt be able to tell you where it was in the bible but she could tell you if it painted the true picture of christ or not in the context in which it was stated.
I think it is a great privilige to have a bible, but the question of which is better is of little value compared to the relationship you have with Jesus. Example when i was young in my walk with Christ i heard a preacher talking about the sowing of seeds. he had pointed this to money and used alot of scripture and knowledge to back his argument. Inside i couldnt argue with him about this because i hadnt the skill to do so but my spirit testified to me that this was wrong. I prayed to the lord to help me learn in this area and he brought a godly man into my life who taught me how to study the bible for my self and to be vigilent in recognises satanic influences to my reasoning. Jesus testified to me that what this godly man was teaching me was pleasing to him was by the fruits i saw and still see today and the authority in Christ he has.
I feel that reading and studying the word to renew the mind is important some of the new bibles encourages relying on mans interpretation of scripture versus rather then digging into the word at all by yourself. It is faith in Jesus that allows us to walk on water but when we take our eyes of him we will sink down.
| 2011/4/22 0:02||Profile|
| Re: |
I agree to a point. I have learned a lot about the Lord from His Word but I have learned even more when I actually acted upon His word and even more when I go through sufferings and trials. His Word comforts me. Not His written Word but His Word that I have hidden in my heart and that the Holy Ghost gives life to and the comfort of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter.
I could write a book for you on what God has taught me in from His wonderful word. And of course you can't negate the work of the Spirit. He takes a dead letter and gives it life.
"My words to you are Spirit and they are life".
But as things like His deity, blood, cross, holy, hell etc, etc, are being removed and new bibles arriving every year which seem to reflect the spirit of the age, (gender neutral, politically correct, etc), where will we be in 30-40 years, or even 10 years for that matter. I personally think the changes have affected the preaching of the Gospel, the personal life and conduct of Christians our view of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. SI posted something recently about Paul Washer's 10 indictments against the church. My first thought was only 10? But then, as I read each one, I realized that I could show pretty easily how each of those indictments can be related to what the New Age Bible versions teach. That would probably raise quite a ruckus and that is not my objective.
Most importantly, If God says do not add or subtract, then why does He seem to place more importance on it than many of us today?
I also know about Richard Wurmbrand, who was imprisoned for 14 years. He forgot every verse that he ever remembered and only remembered one word, JESUS. Yes, it is the Life of Christ in us.
I know that you are not saying that we should get rid of all of our Bibles. are all about to get rid of our Bibles, but then, I guess I don't know what you are really saying, then.
What we are talking about here is dirty, polluted water and BREAD that has been trodden down. How can this be used to make one healthy? Especially, if the changes continue and continue and continue? And there is no reason why they won't continue because they are now tying all new changes to how the language of the day changes. Well, this is just a Red Herring, because the translators take licence and do a lot more than update the language.
Back to God's Word. I love His Word, and I love His Living Word-Jesus.
Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
I don't like drinking dirty water or eating bread that has been walked on and I don't think the Lord wants to feed this to His sheep, either. In fact, I know it. Dirty water and stinky bread are no joy to me.
Eze 34:19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
Do you agree that God has magnified His Word above His name?
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE THY NAME.
Here is what the Roman Catholic Bible says.
I will worship towards thy holy temple, and I will give glory to thy name. For thy mercy, and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy holy name above all.
Of course they would delete it, because there are 3 things that the RCC uses for "Divine" authority. The Magisterium, Tradition and the Bible. So, the Bible can no longer be magnified above His name or anything else, can it?
These translations change the meaning. That is not what God says. So, it all comes down to the TEXT that is being used. If you get a chance, listen to the second video which explains why the Eclectic Text is used instead of the Traditional (Textus Receptus) text. But, you know these things right? So, I am surprised that you would not want your grandkids or great-grandkids to have the KJV. God only knows what will be in Modern Bibles in that future time. Is there not a cause?
New International Version (©1984)
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
New Living Translation (©2007)
I bow before your holy Temple as I worship. I praise your name for your unfailing love and faithfulness; for your promises are backed by all the honor of your name.
English Standard Version (©2001)
I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
I will bow down toward Your holy temple And give thanks to Your name for Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word according to all Your name.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will bow toward your holy temple. I will give thanks to your name because of your mercy and truth. You have made your name and your promise greater than everything.
With all respect,
| 2011/4/22 0:45|
| Re: |
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Seems like something is missing on this crowing over Bible translatiions.
| 2011/4/22 1:40|
| Re: |
Interesting way to use that scripture and toss it at me like a dart.
Jesus is talking about the Pharisees that receive honor from one another. I am not looking for honor from any man. If I was I would be tickling your ears wouldn't I?
Jesus says that they do not have the love of God in them. I don't know about you but I can't really judge anyone's fruit from behind a computer?
Hope all is well with you,
| 2011/4/22 2:07|
| Re: A777|
Brother my deepest apologies. The scripture was not meant to be a dart at you or anyone else on the thread. But as I have read through these threads I am reminded of my days in Calvinism when we get so caught up on trying to win the Arminian we forgot that his desire was to bring people to repentence. Also whole a Calvinist I lost sight of Christ. Praise God I was delivered from Calvinism and found Christ. I only share the verses to provoke the readers of the thread to not lose sight of Jesus in this discussion. There are going to be those hot button issues that believers will disagree with. But let us agree that Jesus is Lord. I do repent of using the phrase crow about translations. That violated Eph.4:29. I ask forgiveness. I do believe that persecution is coming to America. My retirement home may very well be a Fema death camp. Brother of we are cell mates I look forward to your encourement frpm the KJV.
| 2011/4/22 2:41|
| Re: |
i fully agree with you and if i can bodly say, i personly do not read any other translation apart from the kjv because they do not paint the true, full picture of the gosepel to me. I love the word of God and cherish every moment that i walk through it with Jesus. As he gives me my daily bread in it and shows me the deep pearls of who God is. no words can desrcribe my joy in this.
I supose for me I always look at the intent of a persons awnsers or questions in conversations. So if someone says they prefer an NIV translation over a KJV translation my first question is why are they asking this question. at this point i wait on the holy spirit to equip me on how i should respond to the true objective of the persons question. the lord then normally leads me to search what kind of heart that person has; stoney ground, wayside, thorny or good soil. My responce to the question will be on par with the heart in question.
Biblical translations will always be a heated argument because of the vast amount of different intent towards it. it is the frontline of battle fields for the spirit realm. which is spoken about in ephesians. we need this topic to be discussed but also prayer is needed for those that are standing up for righteousness of God with the intent to gloryfy Christ and not mans talent or understandings.
| 2011/4/22 2:54||Profile|
| Re: |
Of course you can boldly say you read the KJV.
And also, I just wanted to add that in my own study on this issue, I had to muddle through everything until I got to the crux of the matter. And the crux of the matter is the TEXT that is being used. So, then I had to find out why the Switch. People make statements on here that are not even true. Like the ESV came from the KJV. Not true. The ESV came from the RSV which came from the Westcott and Hort *NEW* text (eclectic text). All new bible versions came from Westcott and Hort. People should actually do a google search on these two men to find out more about them.
The object of my faith is Christ, and the Christ I know is from the Text. but how much of the new text can I be certain about? So, obviously, I want the right text. The text is the issue. And this is what people need to understand. Where and why was this new text by Westcott and Hort, used to replace the old text. That second video explains very well. So, if we have a new Greek text (eclectic text) that replaces the Textus Receptus, we should not just roll over and say, OK.
We are doubting God now and believing what man (Westcott/Hort) says. Hath God said?
Anyway, got to go for now,
| 2011/4/22 8:30|