| Re: |
Rob Bell basically said that a Loving God wouldn't send a bunch of people to hell...,doesn't that make God and unjust God? There is only forgiveness if blood is shed and the only blood that can wash away sin in Jesus's blood.
Since no one replied to this portion I think this needs to be explained. Brother please recognize that this sentiment actually undermines the love of God. It may seem that a "God of Love" would never send people to hell, however this is really a human perception of Gods love not rooted in divine revelation (which is the Bible). It is a God of love who recognizes the cost it would take to keep people from Hell, who was willing to send his Son so that any who would call on him would be saved and would not perish (John 3:15) Since Jesus says that those who believe in him will not perish then that means that those who do not believe will perish. It is a God of Love who is willing to give his Son so that people can be saved through him. If there is no punishment for sin, then there is no need for sacrifice, if there is no need for sacrifice then there is no need to punish sin. If there is no need to punish sin, then Jesus did not need to die for our sins. It is a great God of Love who is willing to suffer the punishment for our sin to keep us from hell. If you take that out of the gospel, then there is no good news. It is just mere religion. And Christ is nothing but a foolish martyr.
Jesus suffered the effects of sin, in that he became sin for us, II Corinthians 5:21. On the cross Jesus Christ, as God, the God of love, suffered all the punishment sin in the world deserved, as a result belief in him or faith is what saves us. It saves us from many things, hell being one of them. To say that it is a God of Love who would not send people to hell is also to say that a God of love did not suffer rightly to keep people from hell. The sentiment you shared actually ends up destroying the work of the cross. Nullifying the need for Christ to reconcile us to God. If Gods attribute of "Love" in and of itself was sufficient to save the world, then His Son would not have needed to die. Gods love rather is defined, and displayed to us through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:1-3 show us that Jesus is the image of Gods person, thus when you see Jesus, you see who God is.)
God's love is not defined by human understanding, rather, our understanding of Gods Love is enlightened by Christ. He is the very demonstration of Gods love in and of himself. So when Jesus says that those who believe in him will not perish, we understand that Jesus has given us a way to become 'recipients' of Gods love. Without a vehicle to carry the love of God in a targeted and specific fashion then the Love of God is displayed upon all men in the form of Gods hospitable benevolence. (The following passages of scripture explain what I mean by that.)
(Mat 5:41) And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him two.
(Mat 5:42) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
(Mat 5:43) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
(Mat 5:44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(Mat 5:45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
In other words, we are all recipients whether good or bad of Gods hospitality. We are all in His universe. So yes a God of Love allows even the unjust or wicked to be in his dwellings. So there are no doubts that we serve a God of Love. The question is not whether or not he is a God of love, the question is how do we become recipients not of his benevolent love, but of his saving love? Again that is in the person, friendship (John 15:12-15), and work of Christ.
The wicked receive Gods benevolence their whole lives, but it takes faith to receive his saving Love.
By the way, Jesus was tempted right after he was baptized. It is very common to experience much trial and temptations of faith after baptism. Read the parable of the sower and be encouraged by the Lord.
The day I was baptized, I experienced temptation and doubt about Christ to such an extent as to be nearly overwhelmed to the point of denying the faith. For nearly six months I wrestled with doubt and severe spiritual anxiety. At one point Christ requested kindly that I place my faith in him, and since then the doubts have fled into the shadows they were spawned from. An untested faith, is not true faith.
Our faith must be on the person of Christ...
Please reconsider reading anything by Rob Bell. Stick to scripture and ask Jesus to give you spiritual insight.
"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him." -1 John 2:27 (This exhortation applies to believers young, older, and oldest in the faith 1 John 2:12-14)
"Call to me and I will show you great and unsearchable things." -Jeremiah 33:3
"Open thou mine eyes that I may behold wonderful things out of thy law!" Psalm 119:18
I will be praying for you.
| 2011/4/22 3:13||Profile|
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Since no one replied to this portion I think this needs to be explained.
You are right this did need an awnser and i feel you gave a thorough and edifying awnser :)
| 2011/4/22 3:23||Profile|
| Re: |
Brother Lovefirst, you mentioned that the two of you haven't been saved that long. Whenever a Saint is being pestered with fearful thoughts, or any negative feelings whatsoever - the first place to run is to His Word and prayer. He's a very interactive Saviour because He longs for that relationship with you both more than you may yet know. :)
He speaks to us through His Word and faith comes by hearing/reading His Word.
If you can, think back to when this "feeling" started. Which of the two of you felt it first? You don't have to answer here but you need to tract down when this feeling started.
If it started with your wife, you need to ask her what scarey thought went through her mind that took the pleasure out of the Baptism or that day.
If it started with you, you need to ask yourself the same question.
Any thought or fear or feeling needs to be lined up against the Word of GOD.
All of us need to know what He has to say about our relationship with Him and feel grounded in His security and protection.
If either of you read something that spooked you or made you fear anything in particular - you need to talk it out together and compare it to His Word alone.
Many times when people post problems on a thread - they normally will begin to get many counselors through PMs as well. But GOD is your healer of thoughts. Only He knows you and your wife from the womb and knows all there is about you because He is your Creator. He knows exactly what Scriptures you need that will drive away any doubts and fears or negative feelings there are, that either started with you or your dear wife.
I agree with the others about leaving a Rob Bell Church, but just because we are baptised in an a not quite kosher church, it does not affect your hearts that wanted to obey GOD in baptism.
Please go back and find the thought that triggered these fears or feelings. There are some of us that want to please GOD so badly that our consciences are on over-drive and we fear many things that we needn't. Especially when we're newly saved. We even fear the devil and picking-up spirits and all sorts of fears that can easily creep in because we're young in Christ. We mature with time and through His Word and prayer. These three, over time, will stengthen you in trusting Him and in His Spirit and in His Truth.
Trust His Word to take these fears and feelings away. We're washed by the cleansing of His Word, once we are saved. It's continuous growth, regardless of how long any of us are saved and how much we've experienced. His Word divides between even the joints and marrow - as it says. Discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart and comforts and confirms our salvation and standing and power in Him.
Fear and confusion is never from Him but I believe these fears/feelings are from something that either your wife or you have believed would harm or hurt you because of something about that church or that baptism day but "nothing shall in any way harm you" is a Word from His mouth that you can trust.
Walk in faith. Study His Promises together and He will lead you and direct your paths. He says "Fear not" and we trust He knows that that is our wisest move - to trust Him that we have nothing to fear. He knows you both love Him, desire to please Him and He promised to never leave nor forsake you two because of that Love. Perfect Love casts out all fear!!!
Bless you both and congratulations on entering His beautiful Kingdom. It's Eternal - filled with His everlasting arms of love and even joy through hardships.
He is your Saviour, your Love and your Peace - now and forever more. Go with GOD and the 'Joy' of your salvation, In Jesus' Name. GOD Bless you both, dear husband and wife.
| 2011/4/22 3:24|
Lake Charles, LA
| Re: |
Thanks to everyone, we appreicate the help and encouragment! The very affternoon I posted this, after doing some praying, whatever was going on was lifted by the Lord. We now know it was a test, that we where being pestered by the evil one. We have also been told by some new christian friends that we should only be reading the bible like some of you mentioned and we will being doing just that.
We are new christians that desire to be pleasing to the Lord so you are correct in saying our consciences are in 'overdrive'.
Thanks again to everyone! God Bless You!
P.S. I am so happy that is over! However, I know there will be more...
| 2011/4/24 23:54||Profile|
| Re: |
Bless you Brother Lovefirst. Praising GOD with you both!!!
I just wanted to share with you our Brother A. W. Tozer.
I trust the men that have been in Heaven for a while, because I needn't fear that they'll go off the road any time in the future ... Glory to GOD for that. There's a few that I absolutely love, that are Up There.
It's good to download as many sermons from these true men of GOD, just in case we don't have internet at some time.
Here, you'll find Tozer's Audios...
He's one of the only men that puts tears in my eyes even when he's speaking light heartedly. Even when he's joking with his people, there's just such a loving and sweet purity coming out of this man and not a few consider him to be a prophet in his day. Not the type "prophets" we see in this crazy age ... but just one man who speaks the oracles of GOD From His Word with a sweet dear spirit as well and reverences The Word. The tears are just a reaction to the purity of this man and his ability to present and not contort GOD's Words with his words.
I was thinking today, that sometimes it's good for husbands to be the leading man spiritually for his wife instead of a Pastor for seasons at a time. Seems both grow faster that way and the woman feels "the covering" as her husband's roll over her more freely that way. As a sister, I can tell you that it's a very comforting feeling to have a covering, right in your own home rather than just at Services. Praise GOD alrighty!
I hope you both enjoy Brother Tozer.
His Blessings to you both and many more, in Christ Jesus.
| 2011/4/25 18:07|
| Re: False Baptism|
Don't worry about your feelings, our salvation is not based on how we feel today, trust me I've been through this 10,000 times. Whenever you feel this way remind satan and his minions that Jesus defeated him on the cross, submit yourself to God, and the devil will flee from you.
It's actually a good thing when we are being attacked this way because we can know that satan wouldn't waste his time on people whom he knew were already going to hell. Think about it, why would he bother them? Do any of your unsaved friends have this feeling? NO! Especially after you have decided to be obedient to the Lord, no, you are a serious threat to his kingdom. He doesn't bother too much with '3rd rate believers' (as brother Zac would say) but obedient saints are a great danger to him. Be encouraged and I'm very happy to have you as a brother and your wife as a sister, God bless you and keep running!!
| 2011/4/25 20:06||Profile|
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Don't forget Ravenhill. Then you will need two boxes of tissues.
| 2011/4/25 20:12||Profile|
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One more thing, read all of Romans 8, but especially know this:
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -Romans 8:38-39
If we are in His hand, and we decide to stay in His hand, who then can takes us out? NO ONE!!
Overcome my brother and sister! He'll be with you everyday, even when you don't sense or see Him, years later you will look back and see that He was with you, holding your hand, walking with you, I can testify that this is the truth through experience. :-)
| 2011/4/25 20:14||Profile|
Lake Charles, LA
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Thank you very much. A W Tozer has been recommended by another Christian friend as well. I will take your advice and download some.
I hope my wife feels that she has a covering! I know it was a tough few weeks and we did go through some doubt. But the last3 or 4 days have been very nice and we have been able to have the kids busy or asleep so we can both read the bible and discuss things. We have also shared some prayers together.
The Lord is wonderful to us and we are very thankful for His kind blessings that we do not deserve.
| 2011/4/25 21:28||Profile|
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I would recommend a sermon by Paul Washer, the name of the sermon is "How to get saved".
I'm not saying you are not saved because I really dont know you but he says some interesting things in that particular sermon that I believe will be helpful for you.
You should also listen to "basic Christianity" by Paul Washer and most important "regeneration and unity" also by Paul Washer.
Hope this helps.
| 2011/4/26 2:49||Profile|