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Atg, do you know what you are saying? I truly am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, as it's been your own posts through-out this thread that have your own 'translations' - actually mis-representations of what I've written in my posts. I'm not alone in noticing this as it was brought to my attention more than once as well.
What you've done by posting words like "Jesus-is-GOD believes - or doesn't believe" when my post said nothing of the sort, and that is why I had to ask you - "What theology do I espouse"? You haven't gotten it correct through-out this thread yet, so how could you even address "my theology" at all? How can I reply to posts that mis-represent mine repeatedly. Besides, we're discussing demonology and not just The Doctrine of GOD alone.
I don't have an agenda here and refuse to engage with those who do. Your accusations have gone far enough with this last post, into something beyond a friendly discussion.
The Body of Christ does not work with competitions for "lead ewe" positions. I think it's time for you to grow up into the proper function of all the members of His Body. The members of The True Body of Christ work together as one or at the least, can read what each other writes - Even if they differ with the person and would never mis-represent or twist what's been plainly written by another. You have my prayers for your complete deliverance into freedom of mind - the type that is sanctioned by Christ Himself.

 2011/4/28 3:31









 Re: Spiritual Warfare - Jim Logan



Dear sister,

I can only think that you have misunderstood my addresses to you.

Please show one place (date and time of post) where I have written '"Jesus-is-GOD believes - or doesn't believe"' (Someone may have written that, but I don't believe it was I.)

Now you have explained more clearly the basis of your comments (in a number of posts), implying that I've twisted your words, it seems clear that you think I've been trying to re-state YOUR views.

I have no idea how you've got that impression, because I've not departed from my normal style of posting - where I use the Quote function to take words from a previous post and then state MY response to the comment I've chosen.

I am not aware AT ANY TIME of having tried to re-state your views, nor of attempting to expound your view - since you have REJECTED the basic premise which some of us agreed with Jim Logan on the second and third page of this thread, that the term 'demon-possession' DOES NOT APPLY to Christians.



Your insistence on your expression of what you term biblical doctrine is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't take in the general experience of ministers who choose to define their ministry (in the Holy Spirit) in alternative terms.

If these were men who engage in leading Christians deeper into bondage (2 Timothy 3:6, 13; 2 Peter 2:14) I would be able to agree with your fears; your complaints would be more agreeable; but I have heard some preach sound Bible messages, pray, praise and worship the Lamb of God, and seen them minister effectively. I cannot fault their tenderness towards those who approach them for help, nor their integrity and truthfulness - all considerations which matter tremendously to the person choosing a prayer minister for themselves.

The more you are antagonistic to the prayer ministry described in the sessions under discussion, the more two key messages emerge. You feel entitled to determine that a Christian who needs deliverance must not have been born again already, and, you experience fear at the thought that a Christian might need help from a more mature saint to be released into full freedom in Christ.

Having stated early that only non-Christians need demons 'cast out', you then post as if demons ought to be kept a secret from new Christians, ignoring the reality that the 'babe' may have been demon-possessed before, and need guidance on how to resist receiving back their old inmates. In fact, how would any of us know who had been demon-possessed previously under your thesis, because you insist that they all leave first, so that the Holy Spirit can come in. Most of us would say they will only leave BECAUSE the Holy Ghost has come in.


The other doctrinal issue you have not addressed, is the matter of mortification of the flesh, which Paul states is the believer's responsibility - Romans 8:13, Colossians 3:5.


Since we know that no NON-Christian can cast a demon out of themselves, it seems plain that IF a Christian has a demonic stronghold, then with the Holy Spirit's help (Romans 8:13) they might well overcome it - by the mortification of the flesh which Paul advocates (as well as other spiritual exercises such as prayer, Bible reading, singing in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:14 - 17). In the presence of the Lord, demons must bow to Him, as I know you agree. In other words, no-one is suggesting that EVERY Christian who is under demonic INFLUENCE will need specific prayer ministry; only that if one does, this is no SHAME on their part. Indeed, it is the right thing to do - to hunger and thirst for righteousness and to walk in light and truth.


The last thing I would like to mention is that while you claim to have seen enough in the world to make you a relative expert about what people/Christians go through, you indicate no allowances on the Lord's side for how HE might choose to lead a person out of their bondages, after they first respond to His call.

The clearest pictorial example of this in the New Testament is, that when Lazarus had been raised from the dead, AND come out of his tomb, he was STILL in his grave-clothes, and the LORD ordered OTHER PEOPLE to take the bindings off him.

In principle, this is what Jim Logan's series is about.




EDIT: 7th May, 2011

Added because of its agreement with Jim Logan's suggestion to note one's weaknesses, search the Bible for every verse which applies, and study them and pray for oneself.

Extract from 'Harriet Beecher Stowe - How to Live On Christ'

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38911&forum=34&0

(It is believed the words attributed to Harriet Beecher Stowe were included in Hudson Taylor's guidance to his missionaries with the CIM. See thread.)



'A direction of great importance to one who would live this life, is this:—In your sins, troubles, and temptations, make no distinction between great and little things. Remember that nothing that has the slightest bearing on your improvement and spiritual progress is insignificant in the estimation of Christ. Now it is a fact, that Christians are more impeded in their progress by little things, than by great ones;—because, for great things, they seek the strength of Christ, and for little ones, they act in their own. But if the little accidents of every day’s occurrence, the petty annoyances to which every one is subjected, be sufficient to ruffle the temper and excite an unchristian spirit, they are to you matters of very serious moment; and as such, you must regard them—nor can you fully abide in Christ by attaching to such things that just importance, which shall lead you to refer them to Him with the same freedom that you feel in reference to what you commonly call serious affairs. If you are conscious of peculiar and besetting faults, familiarize your mind to those incidents of the life of Jesus, which show a particular bearing on them.

If you are irritable, examine all those incidents which show his untiring patience; if you are proud, those which exhibit his humility; if you are worldly, those that show his spirituality; if you are negligent and careless in duty, those which show his incessant zeal and activity. Study them, understand them, keep them in memory, and pray to him to infuse into you the same spirit. The memory too may well be stored with those sacred songs descriptive of the character of the Saviour, or imploring his divine aid; for their sweet words will sometimes come to you in hours of temptation like gentle messages from your Lord.'

 2011/4/28 20:10





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