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 "Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson

Hello All,
I just wanted to share a couple of links to old (but still relevant) Pulpit Series messages by David Wilkerson. In them, he presents a powerful argument against Christians drinking alcohol. I agree with him wholeheartedly. It is just plain wrong! Christians should not drink, not socially, not moderately, not at all! It's not about leagalism versus liberty, it's about God's desire and His call for godliness and moral purity in our hearts and lives. It's about not placing a stumblingblock in the path of another brother or sister in Christ (1 Cor. 8:6), as well as setting a healthy example for the young people around us. The messages aren't very long, I read them both last night, and they are easy to read. If you have any question at all as to whether or not it's o.k. for Christians to drink I hope you'll read them.

"Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson
(*Edit)
"Cruising and Boozing" by David Wilkerson
(*Edit)

(*Edit - Add - I removed these links. My apologies to all for violating the SI site rule against linking to outside media. I understand this rule and very much respect it. ~ Sis Drema)
A sister in Christ,
Drema

 2011/3/9 11:37
mama27
Member



Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1382


 Re: "Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson

Thank you so much, Sister, for posting these. I am in wholehearted agreement even BEFORE I read them. Brother Wilkerson is credible because of where and how he has ministered for the past 50 years - he is not sitting in his armchair in affluent America. Oh that more preachers would speak out - I fear Christendom in America is far down on the slippery slope....

 2011/3/9 11:58Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

In Romans 14, Paul says drinking wine falls under the area of Christian liberty. About everybody in the Old Testament drank wine, except for those under Nazerite vow. In the New Testament, Jesus drank wine and did so enough that some falsely accused him of being a drunkard. Wine was a part of the Lord's Supper, and some drank so much that they sinned and got drunk.

The idea that drinking alcohol is somehow forbidden in Scriptures is just plain wrong. It's no more sinful to drink alcohol than it is to eat a Big Mac at McDonalds. The problem is, however, when one lacks self-control, and over indulges. When you drink too much, you are a drunk. When you eat too much, you are a glutton. But eating and drinking in and of themselves, are perfectly fine. Just don't do too much of either.

That is the plain teaching of Scripture from cover to cover.


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Jimmy H

 2011/3/9 12:03Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

And not to slam him, but Wilkerson is just plain wrong about Jesus turning water into wine. When Jesus turned water into wine, the Jews there acknowledge that this was, "the good stuff," and praised the host for his unusual custom of saving the best wine for last. For the custom was, you serve the good stuff first, and the cheap stuff last. Indeed, that is how many people still drink today. You start off with the stronger stuff and when it's done it's work, you just go cheap.

Very butchered exegesis with extreme personal stories. I know it might be hard for Wilkerson to believe, but you can drink in moderation and never get drunk or become an alcoholic.


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Jimmy H

 2011/3/9 12:07Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3266
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
by KingJimmy...I know it might be hard for Wilkerson to believe, but you can drink in moderation and never get drunk or become an alcoholic.



KJ, my Grandmother which would now be about 118 years old, and the most Godly woman I have ever known till today, used to have a glass of wine every night before bed, she lived to be 99. The word Alcohol to "most" Christians seems to be a vulgar word, I personally don't drink, but it's just because I could never adapt a taste for any of it, but I did smoke pot until 1995 and gave that up. It's called moderation, I sometimes wished I could adapt a taste to even wine, because I have many days I need something to take the edge off, and also it's rough out yonder going through life stone cold sober. I wished all us Christians could be more like Jesus, he just told the woman at the well, go and sin no more, could you just imagine what a today's Christian might have said to the woman after finding out about her past? maybe not in front of her but the gossip after-wards we could only imagine.


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Bill

 2011/3/9 12:36Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3266
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
by KingJimmy And not to slam him, but Wilkerson is just plain wrong about Jesus turning water into wine.



So many Pastors now days are more vocal on "opinions" this is why I always carry my sword everywhere I go, because I have had many "Christians" come up to me and say my Pastor said......I said he did? ok let me check this out in my Bible and see "exactly" what God said. Any real Christian will always check their Bible if they are not sure, and then you have the ones that are satisfied hearing what was said regardless of the truth, because it fits their beliefs.


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Bill

 2011/3/9 12:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Somebody at my work gifted me with a bottle of champagne for New Years. I gladly took it. I don't know when I'll ever drink it. One day I suppose, should I have company and a very special reason to do so. I'm not a big fan of alcohol myself. I'm very selective about what I drink, and when I do, it's usually only one glass-- at the most two. But having served alcohol before in a restaurant, and knowing something of the science of it, I'm also very aware of how to drink it very slowly, and I always eat something with it.

If you drink a glass over one hour, and have something to eat, you will avoid even getting a "buzzed" feeling, let alone drunk. I seldom drink, but I've had enough to know that if you do get drunk, it's because you either are completely oblivious to responsible alcohol consumption, or you deliberately chose to get drunk. And usually, it's the latter. It's like beign a glutton. You KNOW when you are full, and when you should stop eating.

Not to boast in my Christian liberty or offend my brethren, but frankly, after a long hot day of work during the summer, there is nothing like coming home once and a while, and having an ice cold beer or chilled glass of wine. And for the record, wine is a lot stronger than beer in alcohol content. You can usually drink two beers for every glass of wine.

But again, all according to their own conscience. I would never encourage anybody to drink unless they really know what they are doing, and geniunely like what they drink.


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Jimmy H

 2011/3/9 12:45Profile
flameoffire
Member



Joined: 2008/1/3
Posts: 189
Michigan

 Re:

My PERSONAL conviction is that Christians should not drink. If only to prevent others from stumbling. If someone asks if we have alcohol in our fridge we should be able to say no. Alcohol has destroyed so many lives it's foolish to mess with. Many are lax in their own judgment of moderation and its easy to self-medicate in a moment of depression or weakness. That said, this line of thought could also apply to the internet etc. So it remains a matter of conscience.

There were two types of wine used in Bible times and one of them was essentially grape juice. This is explained by Greek writers of the time period who detail the wine-making process and differentiate between the two Greek words for wine. That said, Jesus did produce the hard stuff.

My PERSONAL convictions and advice would be that everyone should abstain from alcohol, but that is my opinion not a hard and fast discernment from the heart of the LORD. I know a number of Christians who drink, but almost all of them have over indulged at one point or another (I witnessed a number of them do so). Drunkenness is the work of the devil. A drink is not worth the risk.


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Jonathan

 2011/3/9 13:11Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

There were two types of wine used in Bible times and one of them was essentially grape juice. This is explained by Greek writers of the time period who detail the wine-making process and differentiate between the two Greek words for wine.



Just out of curiosity for personal study, could you please point me to a scholarly resource to back this common claim up. I know it is often claimed, but I've yet to actually see proof of this claim. Because it is my understanding all grapes will ferment over time. Various processes are introduced to modify this of course... but the end thereof is always fermintation to various levels.

Much thanks.


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Jimmy H

 2011/3/9 13:15Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 615
Texas

 Re:

Dear Saints,

We are already treading in areas where our beloved apostle instructed us not to go. We need to understand and heed his caution "...but not unto doubtful disputations." The Greek word dialogismos means to dialogue through a matter in an attempt to come to a conclusion. Paul is warning against these type of dialogues on such matters. Instead he gives this clear instruction "Do you have faith have faith unto God".

We tread on very thin ice to think our "personal opinion" is helpful. If one is sharing his opinion with others - is it truly "personal" anymore? The prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself, whereas the fool delights in airing his opinions - especially the "personal" ones.

makrothumia


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/3/9 13:32Profile





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