SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Sermons | About

Featured Audio Sermon
Christ Magnified In Our Bodies by Leonard Ravenhill


Login

Nickname

Password


Main Menu
· Home
· About Us
· Audio Sermons
    by Speaker
    by Topic
    by Scripture
    by Podcast
· Text Sermons
    Christian Books
    Online Bibles
· Video Sermons
· Vintage Images
· Discussion Forum
· Help Support
· Contact Us


Share SI with others - Add a website link or image banner on your website or blog.

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : King David in the nude?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1817
Kansas

 King David in the nude?

So I have been reading in 2nd Samuel a bit and I found this portion of it to be strange indeen 2nd Samuel 6. Not necessarily strange but I have heard many people say David disrobed and danced naked before the Ark of God. As I read the story in different translations and looking deeper at the context David "dancing naked" seems to be a poor interpretation in fact 2 Samuel 6:14 says "And David danced before the Lord with all his might, WEARING A PRIESTLY TUNIC."(NLT)

Michal then later makes some statements that I guess is where some would get such a notion, and I can see how but looking deeper at who Michal and David are I just can't put the two together. Michal says in 2 Samuel 6:20 "How glorious was the king of Israel today, who stripped himself of his kingly robes and uncovered himself in the eyes of his servants' maids as one of the worthless fellows shamelessly uncovers himself!" (AMP)

David acted like everyone else which to her wasn't kingly, some translation use the word Distinguished Meaning Saracastically saying Oh HOW DISTINGUISHED was the King today exposing himself (as a common man, removing his kingly robes for a Priestly tunic). Michal grew up with King Saul as a dad who was "a whole head taller than any man" Saul was very distinguished amoung men and I am guess Michal placed this on David. The use of the man As is a comparison that was exaggerated by Sarcasm kind of like the phrase "I am light as a feather" For a king to remove his Kingly Robes in public was AS a man who exposes himself shamelessly.

Yet another factor the look at is David was praising radically the God who took away her fathers anointing. Michal could very well be harboring bitterness. I think the fact that Michal wanted David to know was now everyone even the Common maidservants would now look at David differently than a "traditional" king. Could I get some thoughts on this, because seriously before today I was always told David danced naked before the Ark of God.

This really doesn't change the story any but it definitely is interesting, and to me was a Display of David's Unashamed Love and humility before the Lord whether he was naked or not.

God Bless,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/3/1 7:15Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4401
Charlotte, NC

 Re: King David in the nude?

Yeah, I don't think he was dancing naked either. I think most people say he was because his wife smacked him around a bit afterwards for being so 'exposed.' But exposed does not necessarily mean he was naked. I would consult an academic commentary or two on this though.

However, it should be noted that the prophets Isaiah and Micah went naked for long periods of times in their ministry.


_________________
Jimmy Humphrey

 2011/3/1 8:14Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1817
Kansas

 Re:

Well its a relief to know I at least line up with the King Jimmy Version :).


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/3/1 8:53Profile









 Re: King David in the nude?


KJV

2 Sam 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all [his] might; and David [was] girded with a linen ephod. 15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. 16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! {shamelessly: or, openly} 21 And David said unto Michal, [It was] before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. 22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.



I think this might be about having his top half uncovered - if that. Anyone who is dancing will begin to feel hot, and want to shed a layer or two!


You might wish to look into these references to priestly underwear.


Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach: {their...: Heb. flesh of their nakedness} {reach: Heb. be}

Exodus 39:28 And a mitre [of] fine linen, and goodly bonnets [of] fine linen, and linen breeches [of] fine twined linen,

Leviticus 6:10 And the priest shall put on his linen garment, and his linen breeches shall he put upon his flesh, and take up the ashes which the fire hath consumed with the burnt offering on the altar, and he shall put them beside the altar.

Leviticus 16:4 He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these [are] holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and [so] put them on.


Ezekiel 44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird [themselves] with any thing that causeth sweat.

{with...: or, in sweating places: Heb. in, or, with sweat}


 2011/3/1 9:00
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4635
Independence, Missouri

 Re: King David in the nude?

I think God's estimate of the situation is most interesting:

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. (2 Sam. 6)

Bible teachers will tell you that when you come across the word, 'therefore' you must stop and see what it's there for.

You will notice that Michal did not celebrate with David as the Ark of God came up. She had no such inclination. She stayed afar off- observing at a safe distance. In fact she despised David in her heart for what he was doing. This is her response to David's response to God. This is the issue. The clothing issue was merely her excuse to spin the situation in a way so as to color her feeling. She pretended it was lewdness, but really she despised his worship before the Lord. David did a vulnerable thing and she acted out.

As Jimmy points out, nudeness was not the issue. He was girded with a linen ephod. Some theologians have suggested that the priestly garb was such that it did not allow for priests to go up steps in their service for God- lest they expose themselves. So it is probable that in David's dancing that he may have become less covered than would be desired. However, this moment between Him and God was very sacred. That Ark had been carried off by God's enemies because of the reckless priesthood that were charged with guarding it. ICHABOD was the result. This is David's response to God undoing what Eli and his sons had done.

When God returns to the camp, people who truly love God are liable to respond in ways that seem unusual or even uncalled for. But this event is exemplary. God is watching and life is only about 75 years and then the judgment. If Michal can't be excited and joyous that God is coming back into the camp, at least she can hold her peace. But she could not restrain herself. She challenged David's response to God and intruded into the domain of God as recklessly as did Uzziah into the Holy of Holies.

God's reaction? Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. (2 Sam. 6) God made sure that the proverb, "like mother like daughter" would never be heard of Michal. He made sure that spirit or attitude never multiplied. He struck her womb at the root lest it bring forth more like fruit. If ever there were a passage to sober our minds this is it. It ought to strike a true fear of God in our hearts before we would endeavor to measure anyones response to God.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/3/1 9:01Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4401
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Amen, well said Robert.


_________________
Jimmy Humphrey

 2011/3/1 10:01Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
I think God's estimate of the situation is most interesting: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. (2 Sam. 6)



My assumption has always been that David was the one who put her aside. Her 'disgust' probably disgusted him.

PassingThru

 2011/3/1 12:33Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4635
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
My assumption has always been that David was the one who put her aside. Her 'disgust' probably disgusted him.



I think your right, especially after dragging her back to himself after she had been given away again. As for having 'no child' I think the key word here 'valad' is enlightening. It is used only twice in the OT and the other is of Sarah in Gen. 11:30.

I have only found a few commentators that suggested the possibility of David refusing her from this time forward, but it was only a 'possibility' (Clarke, etc). Under Mosaic law he would be required to provide conjugal relations (Exodus 21:10) so most OT commentators, esp. K&D simply assume providence. God Bless.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2011/3/1 14:42Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1817
Kansas

 Re:

Awesome insight and comments, this is why I post my questions on here. Generally there is some very gracious and intellectual responses that at times my immaturity doesn't allow my to grasp on my own. So Thanks!

I also see a beautiful time in regards to David and the People, He blessed them all immensely. I believe this event for David was the acknowledgement that God is the true King and fully deserving of Praise and Glory.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/3/2 1:07Profile









 Re: King David in the nude?


Hi Matthew,

I'd like to bring some othere scriptures to this picture of Michal. Never forget whose daughter she is, and that she was, perhaps, quite a young bride. David was her first husband.

I have to say that I had read her childlessness differently, and probably wrongly, as I'd thought David may have set aside her wifely duties, (as he had other wives), but, this would have been unlike him in his love of the Lord's statutes, of which this (not to set aside a wife) is a major one.

Regarding Michal's attitude to the Lord, it is hard to know if she had ever worshipped Him, even when her father become numbered with the prophets. (A study of Saul is instructive, as he always put his own interests first. It seems that the worship of God turns that agenda on its head, where a person really IS worshipping God.)

1 Samuel 19:13
And Michal took an image, and laid [it] in the bed, and put a pillow of goats' [hair] for his bolster, and covered [it] with a cloth.

{image: Heb. teraphim}

There is mention of Michal, with children, which you may wish to read around.

2 Samuel 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

{Michal: or, the sister of Michal} {brought...: Heb. to Adriel}

Also, childlessness in association (as a punishment from God) with idolatry, is listed as a consequence in Leviticus 18 in the latter part of the chapter.

 2011/3/2 8:04





©2002-2014 SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons | Google+
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival. | Privacy Policy