SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : What's a Preacher To Do?

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
restinhim
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 30


 What's a Preacher To Do?

What’s a preacher to do?
I have to stop here and ask a question: how is a preacher supposed to motivate his congregation to good works if he cannot use a performance-based system? You see the problem? If there is no punishment left for believers, no condemnation, and if there is no system of rewards for good performance, then why wouldn’t people just go out and do whatever they want? Of course, that’s the question Paul relates in Romans 6:15. People will just sin more if they understand that they are under grace.

So, preachers, you must teach your people how to walk in relationship with Jesus. Yes, that is something very different from performance. It isn’t about how they walk, but with whom they walk. Those who walk with Jesus walk far from sin. He is good and He leads us into good. We can trust Him. We cannot trust ourselves to walk right and all the good teaching won’t help. Instead of learning to walk “uprightly,” we need to learn to walk with Him. The “uprightly” part will happen.

Dave Orrison

 2011/2/6 1:18Profile









 Re: What's a Preacher To Do?

you ask:

Quote:
What’s a preacher to do?
I have to stop here and ask a question: how is a preacher supposed to motivate his congregation to good works if he cannot use a performance-based system? You see the problem?



lovingingly and gently, yes i do see the problem.

the question is predicated on what a mere man, "the preacher" can "do" to "motivate his congregation", etc etc.

"his congregation"?

forgive me for what i testify, but "his", meaning the "preacher's congregation?

Oh no, Jesus went to the Cross, meek and humble, to receieve the worst sort of torture, humilation, offered His Life as ransom for many, with the Blood of Messiah, as wholly sufficient for the cleansing of all sin, and a mere man, a breath, a vapor, dares claim the congregation...which is the ekkelsia, which is the Church as "his"?

there the problem lays.

If the "preacher" fears God, he would be well and wise, to prayerly beg Jesus to Pastor, the Church of God...every Church.

That's the whole crux of the problem we have today, man wants to put himself out front, to be seen "doing things for God", performing, laboring over the 3 point sermons he's been taught, making sure they fall within a 25 to 45 minute time frame, so as not to "bore" the congregation.

Why bother even coming on Sundays? In many places, God has been co-opted in favor of a man crafted agenda, just look at the bulletin's ushers hand out:

from 10 AM to 1030AM, you'll sing worships songs, said lyrics beamed up on a power point screen.

from 1030 to 1040, ushers will take the offering, and regular attenders will be encouraged to greet "new comers".

from 1040 until 1115, the preacher will noise about with his prepared "sermon", he might even use props, or jokes, or home spun antedotes, he might even be admidst a "series" of sermons.

then at 1115, when the preacher has signaled the "worship leader" to softly play piano, you'll hear the familiar, "with all eyes closed, those who want to want to accept Jesus, raise their hands".

a small knot of elders will stand at the altar to recieve such "new converts", while the rest of the regular attenders, head for the lobby, to figure out whether its going to be Denny's, or Applebee's for lunch, and by 1230 Sunday, the doors of the church will be locked.

God willing, this will not be going on much longer.

"restinhim", this is not a personal insult geared towards you; this is my heart breaking, of the mess, we who have been given so much, have made.

i HAD to testify as such, in Jesus' love, neil

as a postscript, the question, "what's a preacher to do"?

Die to self, and let Jesus pastor His Congregation, via the Words He gives you thru the Indwelling Holy Ghost.
throw out all those seminary books, church growth books, sermon prep books, commentaries, because There is only One Book needed, and on that Book, That Word, will Jesus build His Church.

 2011/2/6 6:50
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Thank you for your words brother Neil that have greatly encouraged me.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/2/6 7:17Profile
restinhim
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 30


 Re:

Hi Natan4Jesus,

I was wondering if anyone would spot that "little" problem.

What I wrote is the system's way of fixing the system's problem.

And that is truly the crux of many of our problems today.

"His conregation". It is no such thing!

Somehow the Holy Ghost is forgotten about these days. We have Protestant Popes that can do the Holy Ghost's work, today.

My postscript:

What's a Preacher to do?

Die to self and become a brother like everyone else and stop using your position for persnal gain.

 2011/2/6 8:43Profile









 Re: What's a Preacher To Do?

I think you nailed it right here:

"teach your people how to walk in relationship with Jesus. Yes, that is something very different from performance. It isn’t about how they walk, but with whom they walk."

I think a tremendous amount of time and energy was wasted by the gentleman who took great pains to zero in on the fact that you said the congregation was "yours." I don't think you actually believe it's yours. You meant that it is the flock you've been given responsibility over.

Trying to "die to self" as your primary objective will move YOU into performance mode. Then how can you turn around and teach the flock to "walk with Christ" and forget "performance," when you yourself are going back to works? The work of "dying to self" is a WORK. A PERFORMANCE.

You were/are on the right track with your original post. Please ignore any well-meaning but erroneous legalistic advice.

God Bless!

 2011/2/7 10:43









 Re: What's a Preacher To Do?


Hi brother spinalmanu,

Quote:
Trying to "die to self" as your primary objective will move YOU into performance mode. Then how can you turn around and teach the flock to "walk with Christ" and forget "performance," when you yourself are going back to works? The work of "dying to self" is a WORK. A PERFORMANCE.

I see what you're saying, and in part I agree. In part I disagree - because according to Paul it's a choice which enables us to receive the finished work of Christ.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.



Else how CAN we 'walk with Him' so 'the “uprightly” part will happen'?


1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 2011/2/7 11:37









 Re:

Agreed. However, I think one of the biggest oversights in reformed or revival circles today, is how easily they let in the yeast of the pharisees Jesus warned about. (I'm not calling you a pharisee BTW)

Yes, the Scriptures ask us to die to self, be broken, be humble, walk in the light, etc. But this is only possible once the finished work of the Cross is applied FULLY. In other words, if someone is weary and weak and wants to rest in Christ and be guided by Him into increasing holiness, it is counter-productive to put the burden on the weak sheep to "be holy" and not to make unintended grammatical mistakes. The underlying theme is that they are unuseable by God until they attain a certain standard by their own choices/actions. When in fact what they need is a total cessation of activity and to fall/surrender into Christ. From THAT foolish, weak act comes all power for future work.

I do get upset when I read posts such as the one from "Natan," because it has revivalism written all over it and zero Gospel. It's the flesh slapping the flesh on the cheek and saying, "be careful!" "do this!" "don't do that!"

If a football coach was all that was needed for sanctification the book of Romans and Galatians (and much of what Paul wrote, and therefore much of the N.T.) would not have been written.

Who cares if modern life leads pastors to make Sunday morning church schedules? There is NO spiritual value in having NO schedule or NO format. And there is NO spiritual value in having schedules. It is the quality of the preaching and the surrender of the pastor and flock to the Holy Spirit that is of value. Whether you lived in medieval England and church gatherings had no seats and clocks were not invented yet, or whether we are in North American in 2011 and peoples' lives are, by mere culture, more likely to revolve around tight-knit schedules.

I only mention this critique because it highlights exactly what "revivalism" does to a man. It brings them into bondage warned about in Colossians 2:23

"Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

I have been in churches where "revivalism" was the centerpiece of theology and although it was very "spiritual" it was D-E-A-D. No love. No joy. No peace. Constant utterances from the pulpit to be "more Holy," "more broken," "more _________" without any grace, love or practical assistance. And I've known people who are supposed to be very holy who were not able to restrain their basic urges and did things they would be ashamed of people knowing. Christ's harshest words were not for the weak or sinful, they were for the religious.

Yes we need more holiness. Absolutely. But there is only ONE WAY to get it. Perhaps Martin Luther said it best:

"Now this is accomplished if we preach that Christ died for us and rescued us from sin, death and hell. This is delightful and sweet like milk. But later, the cross also must be preached, that we are to suffer as Christ did -- this is strong drink, it is strong wine. Therefore, Christians should first be given the weakest drink, and that is milk. For we cannot preach to them anything better than to preach to them Christ alone; which is not bitter, but is mere sweet, rich grace, from which you receive no harm whatever. This is the true, intelligible, unadulterated milk. But here Peter has well supported himself by Scripture, as he is throughout rich in passages from the Scriptures. In the Old Testament it is written, both in Exodus 23:19, and Deuteronomy 14:21, "Thou shalt no boil a kid in its mother's milk." Beloved, why did God permit that to be written? Of what concern to him was it that no suckling should be killed while as yet it was imbibing its mother's milk? Because he would thereby help us to understand that which Peter here teaches. It is as if he had said, preach gently to the young and weak Christians, let them be carefully fed, and grow fat in the knowledge of Christ. Burden them not with strong doctrine, for they are as yet too young, but after they have become strong, let them then be slaughtered and sacrificed on the cross. So also we read in Deut 24:5, "When a man taketh a new wife, he shall not go out to war the first year, lest he be slain; but abide at home and cheer his wife." All this tends to the point, that we should bear for a time with young Christians and proceed tenderly with them. But when they have grown, God brings them to the holy cross, lets them even die like other Christians, so then the kid will be sacrificed."

God Bless you and Natan.



 2011/2/7 12:59
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re: Nathan

Quote:
Die to self, and let Jesus pastor His Congregation, via the Words He gives you thru the Indwelling Holy Ghost. throw out all those seminary books, church growth books, sermon prep books, commentaries, because There is only One Book needed, and on that Book, That Word, will Jesus build His Church.



Your post almost made me cry. My heart bleeds and hurts as well. The watchdogs are fat and lazy and acquired a taste for lamb and in some cases a preference for goat(i hear its cheaper these days). The amount of professing Christians i come in contact with who do not know God is staggering and heart breaking. I have a burden for the youth especially. church is a business these days.

Please remember to pray for the situation in church. Nathans remarks were very funny at first then the iron hit me at just how sad it really is become. We have replaced God with baal.

 2011/2/10 8:36Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy