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Heartsong, this is in the Book, too.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The word "but" is very important.
| 2011/2/3 9:17||Profile|
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John 1:17 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Amen. It takes both. The law to show us what it is that we are to do, and the grace and truth of Jesus Christ to do it.
I was astounded the day that I listened to Exodus on my iPod. Not only did GOD want me to keep the Sabbath, but HE was most insistent that I do so as HE kept bringing it up again and again as I listened through the chapter. When I got home, I read Exodus three times and wrote out the parts about keeping the Sabbath. And then the hard part began - figuring out what it meant practically - how to actually do it in light of my current situation. The LORD slowly brought me through what it meant to keep the Sabbath and as with many things it was through trial and error.
First I tried keeping it on Sunday but it ended up that I did not even have time to pray as my whole day seemed to be filled up with social obligations. When I brought the problem before the LORD He showed me that the Sabbath was to be kept on Saturday, not Sunday. Sabbath means seventh day. The Sabbath is also from sunset on Friday, through sunset on Saturday, but where I live, sunset goes from 4:00pm in the winter to 10:00pm in the summer so I tried to just set a time so that I could kind of schedule the day. But that did not work either as no matter how hard I tried, I did not get everything done by the designated hour. So I went from sunset to sunset and everything fell into place.
Next I had to figure out what keeping the Sabbath meant. First I tried to follow rules but soon found out that that was not what the LORD required. What it all boiled down to, is that I am to do what HE wants, and not what I want. There are all kinds of temptations from the enemy to break my Sabbath - to do things that I want to do rather than what the LORD wants me to do. And there is a tendency to try and structure the day, but that is not what the LORD wants either. It is HE that is to be LORD of the Sabbath.
Unfortunately, as I was learning these things, there was no example for me to follow so occasionally I would doubt whether or not I was doing the right thing. Then one day the LORD showed me that out of all of the days of the week, Satan has defiled Saturday the most. There is more self gratification that happens on Saturdays than any other day of the week. Many people do their weekly shopping, sometimes spending the entire day doing so. It is the day that many go out for an evening meal and then out to the movies. It is the day that many people clean their houses, mow their lawn, get their hair cut and wash their car. It is often the day that the entire family goes out for a day of fun and games. And dare I mention that it is also the designated day for many sporting events, including golf.
People seem to be fixated on "Jesus is our sabbath," and I whole heartedly agree; it is in HIM that we find peace; it is in HIM that we find our rest. However, I can not see how this negates the keeping of the Sabbath day. The more people jump through hoops to prove this, the more I suspect that they really do not know what they are talking about for if they were truly resting in HIM, if Jesus Christ was truly their Sabbath, this subject would not rustle their feathers in the least.
| 2011/2/3 12:17||Profile|
| 2011/2/3 12:32||Profile|
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Heartsong, will someone go to Hell if they do not observe and keep the 7th day sabbath?
| 2011/2/3 14:30||Profile|
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Yes, if they do not repent. And that is the problem with all of these voices you are hearing - actually it is only one voice, the voice of the enemy and he is keeping GOD's children from repenting for the breaking of HIS commandment.
It is not a difficult thing to keep this commandment, for if you are turned unto HIM, HE will carry you through. The LORD does not command us to do something and then leave us to ourselves to fulfill it - that is why HE sent the Holy Spirit - to show us the way.
If you love the LORD Jesus Christ, and are resting in HIM, it is not a difficult thing to keep this commandment at all - in fact it has come to be my favorite day of the week - a day with my heart set entirely upon HIM - and the enemy hates it.
| 2011/2/3 14:50||Profile|
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HeartSong, you just admitted to a very straighforward question. You were asked if someone would go to hell if they did not observe the 7th day Sabbath.
That is another Gospel, my friend. That is what Paul was combatting in Galatians. He said if anyone brings another Gospel other than the Gospel of Grace, then let him be accursed.
I don't want to go around in circles with you, and I am not going to, so I will just let you know that according to the Eternal Word of God, you are propagating another Gospel, a false Gospel, as false as the gospel of the Roman Catholic Church and there is no tolerance on SI for that false gospel. Paul, and by extension the Holy Spirit, have no tolerance for a gospel that denies the Gospel of Grace.
Everyone on SI knows now that you are pushing a false gospel for you have said that we will go to hell if we do not repent of honoring the 7th day Sabbath.
I pray that you will repent of preaching a false gospel.
I will not repent of not observing a 7th day Sabbath by staying home, not working, not speaking my own words, not cooking or building and starting a fire.
I doubt you will get many responses now that you have condemned everyone. You will be judged by the law because you try to keep it. By your own words shall you be judged. Please forsake such folly.
| 2011/2/3 15:09||Profile|
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Before last night I would never have made such a statement, but as I was discussing this subject here on sermonindex, I somehow let the fire in my little stove get up to 400 degrees - just a few ticks off the danger zone. When I opened the door, and peered into the raging fire, I had no doubt that I was looking into hell. The little pieces of what once was wood were almost melting in the intense heat.
Now this morning, as I am again discussing this subject, I am more certain than ever, and not afraid to say it, that unless GOD's children repent of profaning HIS holy day, they will indeed go to hell for they have committed adultery and have turned their hearts unto idols.
It is not within my power to condemn another, unless bringing forth a word is considered to be condemnation. It is each ones heart that condemns their own actions.
I love my brothers and sisters here on sermonindex and would have it that none would perish. I have spoken what the LORD has given me to say. Now it is for each one of you to bring it before the LORD and hear what HE has to say on the matter.
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." - Revelation 21:8
NOTE: I have edited this by removing the first paragraph, which Miccah has most graciously pointed out as to have been in error. Praise God for His saving grace.
| 2011/2/3 15:46||Profile|
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Heartsong. Thank you for your openness. I do appreciate it.
Heartsong, you said, "In case you have not noticed, I have not said what it is that each one is to do, or not do, on the Sabbath. That is up to the LORD for HE is the Lord of the Sabbath."
Your case is not built up on Biblical facts Heartsong. The Lord HAS in fact taught what can and cannot be done on the sabbath through the Bible. If you follow the law, it is His ways, not yours. He speaks this throughout scripture.
Think about it... you are saying that a person might have a certain freedom on the sabbath from the Lord, while another person may go to Hell because of enjoying that exact same freedom in the Lord as you, if the Lord didn't give the go ahead. That is saying that the Lord picks and chooses what one persons freedom is, and another person'sin is, even though it is the same action, thought or deed...
The Lord has given instruction already on the sabbath, yet you say that those instruction no longer apply, but (paraphrasing) "just what He tells you to do".
Why do you keep one part of the law, but not everything that goes with the law? The letter and the spirit of the law of the sabbath coinsides with eachother. You cannot hold to a sabbath day view without following the LORD's regualtions on HOW to observe it.
Respectfully, it would make more sense to me if you said that we had to follow the entire letter and spirit of the law of the sabbath instead of just what the Lord tells certain people what to do.
Brother. I again thank you for your honesty and transparency. I do pray that the Lord speaks to you.
| 2011/2/3 16:03||Profile|
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Heartsong - I prayed that most here would have seen those verses from Romans 14 about judging others over "a day" - but this has truly gotten out of hand now.
No one can help but notice that you base most of your beliefs on "experiences", ie, while picking beans, while checking the woodstove, and things of that nature - which is a very dangerous way to know His Mind.
You speak a bit about "getting a word", as well - not that I disbelieve that GOD speaks to His own but to live by experiences and 'words' alone and not considering The Body of Christ and saying that they'll all go to Hell now for (as restinhim said) "observing a 7th day Sabbath by staying home, not working, not speaking my own words, not cooking or building and starting a fire." which is what "observing the sabbath" is - is just going to very far now and you risk a lot by making such declarations.
You can see here by this thread link below, what a "legalist" that I am - so don't believe for a minute that I don't believe in giving GOD every minute of every day - but to redefine "the sabbath" to your OWN definition and then imposing that re-defined sabbath on others at the risk of their salvation is totally UnBiblical and very cultish. You have succeeded in forming your own personal cult by this.
You Have Re-defined the sabbath to your own personal convictions alone and not by The WORD of GOD - at all.
I would pray that you would read more of His WORD and depend less on "experiences and words" and of course, exercise Great Caution when condemning His Saints by anything other than His WORD and His Alone - as "it is written" - lest you be found in the same camp as the accuser of the brethren.
I defended your right to say that such & such will happen in May but this is going way too far with trusting your own experiences and 'words' -- Please read Romans 14 and be still for a while until we pray a lot more over this - or else you are in danger of opening more doors to 'words or visions' that also contradict HIS and you compound your accusations against true believers, in Jesus Name.
| 2011/2/3 16:12|
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HeartSong, please consider:
1) God commanded the Sabbath as a day of rest, not worship.
2) God gave no command to His New Testament Church about worshipping on any particular day.
3) The Christians in the Bible met on the first day of the week:
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
4) The New Testament explicitly states that the Sabbath was a shadow, and that Christ is the substance:
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The recognition that CHRIST IS OUR SABBATH is totally consistent with overall biblical teaching concerning the law as a type and shadow, which was confirmed with absolute clarity when God destroyed the Temple and the Jewish religion of sacrifice after the FINAL SACRIFICE of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Going back to types and shadows is to miss the reality of Jesus Christ. It is the error that the whole book of Hebrews was written to correct.
5) The Sabbath was a part of the Old Testament Law that is ONLY a shadow of the reality of Jesus Christ our Lord:
Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
6) The Sabbath was part of the Old Testament Law from which Christ died to set us free so we could be married to Him (NOT the Torah!!!), as it is written:
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law [including the Sabbath] by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
7) Jesus Christ is our All in all. Paul warned us about going back to the vain Jewish laws of the Old Testament:
Galatians 4:8-11 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage [to the Law]? 10 Ye observe days [Sabbaths], and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Galatians 5:1-5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage [to the OT Sabbath Law, circumcision, etc.]. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
I don't know of anything in the Holy Bible that suggests Christians should keep Sabbath.
| 2011/2/3 20:58||Profile|