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wedied
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 22


 Re:

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Who ever said you don't obey the Lord? He said love the Lord thy God with all.... and thy neighbor as thyself.

He commanded, Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The Holy Spirit told us to put on the Lord Jesus Christ and you won't fulfill the lusts of the Spirit.

And there are many more of these commands such as Abide in Me, Look unto Jesus, make straight paths for your feet, yield to God, do not turn away from Him that speaketh, let us have grace whereby we may serve God acceptably, walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.



Are you actually likening these commands of Jesus to Zac's "try this and try that"?

 2011/1/30 0:51Profile









 Re:

Zac began his message based upon this one Scripture -

Eze 16:49, 50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, "pride", "fulness of bread", and "abundance of idleness" was in her and in her daughters, "neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.


So why is he wrong for suggesting that those who find themselves in -

- Pride

- Laziness

- Gluttony (love of good food) and

- Neglecting the poor and needy


Should -

- Begin first of all, by humbling yourself in all situations. Avoid all arrogance.

- Then begin to be hard-working and diligent in whatever you do.

- Then try fasting – avoiding food – once in a while.

- And fourthly, begin to think a little more about the needs of people around you and see how you can help them.


He ends this message with -

"We cannot overcome any sin without grace from God - but He gives His grace only to the humble; and He helps only those who are kind and helpful to others."

Which has Scriptural backing for each point. Like Matthew 25 and James 4:6.



I'm not quite understanding why all of the uproar over this simple article but I believe it's touched some nerve - sadly enough.

 2011/1/30 3:17









 Re:

To Knitefall,

What place does Hebrews 12:1-17 have in this discussion? We are told in vss. 1-2 to run with patience the race that is set before looking unto Jesus. But what are the effects/results of doing so? Striving against sin (vs.4), endure God's chastening or we're not His sons of (vss. 7-8), be subject to the Father and be exercised by His chastening to partake of His holiness and have the peaceable fruit of righteousness produced afterward (vss.9-13), follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (vs. 14 compared with v. 2), and then verses 15-17 (which actually remind me of the article spoken of here).

Where do these verses fit in your theology?

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 2011/1/30 5:32
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Jesus-is-God

Quote:
by Jesus-is-GOD on 2011/1/30 0:17:16

Zac began his message based upon this one Scripture -

Eze 16:49, 50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, "pride", "fulness of bread", and "abundance of idleness" was in her and in her daughters, "neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.


So why is he wrong for suggesting that those who find themselves in -

- Pride

- Laziness

- Gluttony (love of good food) and

- Neglecting the poor and needy


Should -

- Begin first of all, by humbling yourself in all situations. Avoid all arrogance.

- Then begin to be hard-working and diligent in whatever you do.

- Then try fasting – avoiding food – once in a while.

- And fourthly, begin to think a little more about the needs of people around you and see how you can help them.


He ends this message with -

"We cannot overcome any sin without grace from God - but He gives His grace only to the humble; and He helps only those who are kind and helpful to others."

Which has Scriptural backing for each point. Like Matthew 25 and James 4:6.



[b]I'm not quite understanding why all of the uproar over this simple article but I believe it's touched some nerve - sadly enough.[/b]


Agreed.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/1/30 6:30Profile
wedied
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 22


 Re:

Yes, it must seem like we are straining at gnats.

But everything must be Jesus. Everything we do to "improve" our situation must be a turning to Him. It is the heart that has gone astray. We must return with our whole heart in repentance and brokenness over our sin to God. You see, even a good sermon can cause us to go off just little at a time. Is there some truth to what he says? Sure. There always is. But he ended it rather anemically and sends us off to chase rabbits, overcome on our own and improve self. He did have one of his endings right, Humble yourself.

Consider:

Amo 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

What did the Lord say? You have not returned to me. The person that Zac is talking about, only needs to "return to Him" with His whole heart, which is a turning away from everything else. This obviously implies repentance.

Zac should have just said, "Humble yourself and return to the Lord with all your heart". But then, he starts with the sacrifices.

Condider:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Sacrifices in the Old Testament are a picture of all our self-effort and good works, today.

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

How do we wash ourselves, make us clean? We go to the sacrifice. Jesus Christ. Cease to do evil - same as Romans 6. Yield yourselves to God and not to sin.

Well, that is my only problem with how the writer ends it. You can find scriptural backing for just about anything, but the whole counsel of God always shows us that first and foremost we have gone astray in our heart, God wants no sacrifices, they only clean up the outside and can never circumcise or purify the heart, this is an operation of the Spirit of God and so we must return to God with our whole heart in brokenness and repentance.

Because there is truth in his sermon there will continue to be debates about what he said and maybe we should move on.

Some of us like some preachers so much that we are willing to overlook "small things", but I think because they may be widely known teachers and many "young" eyes and ears are sitting in front of them as it were with mouth open for their daily feeding, teachers should be a little more careful.

 2011/1/30 8:23Profile









 Re:

"Overcome on your own"?

I'm not one to defend a "man" but a teaching that's Biblical-yes.

If anyone's straining at knats - I think it's those who have gone looking for any knat they could conjure up out of what was written - especially in view of his closing line.

What he laid out here is absolutely Biblical.

I'll lay it out in a plainer way - Remembering that Scripture can be given that speaks on each of these faults, that line up with the advice to each problem listed.
I added some thoughts in [brackets]

- "Pride?" - Begin first of all, by humbling yourself in all situations. Avoid all arrogance.
[Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.]


- "Laziness?" - Then begin to be hard-working and diligent in whatever you do.
[Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.]


- "Gluttony (love of good food)?" - Then try fasting – avoiding food – once in a while.
[Pro 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.][Well he 'could have' quoted that one. :)]


- "Neglecting the poor and needy?" - And fourthly, begin to think a little more about the needs of people around you and see how you can help them.
[Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.]


wedied said: " Cease to do evil - same as Romans 6. Yield yourselves to God and not to sin."

Now where's the heresy/error hunting, if what he is saying is turn from the path you're on and do the Biblically correct thing.

The only ones "continuing the debates" are the knat pickers themselves. We'll "move on" when they see the foolishness of this hair-splitting of Practical Biblical advice.



edit: hit submit somehow(?) from keyboard - wasn't finished.
Sorry, there's something about this laptop that's shifting things around when I lean on the left corner.

 2011/1/30 9:50
wedied
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 22


 Re:

I think knitefall would agree that you can have the last word.

I just want to say, that I did not refer to you as the one "straining at gnats". I said, "maybe it looks like we are straining at gnats".

His Peace to all.

 2011/1/30 10:24Profile









 Re:


1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

 2011/1/30 10:30









 Re: OVERCOMING SEXUAL PASSIONS by Zac Poonen



http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=37278&forum=34&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

"Fasting"

Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them,
and then shall they fast.

Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed

Act 14:23 prayed with fasting

2Co 6:5 - in fastings

2Co 11:27 - in fastings often

 2011/3/6 12:01





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