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Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


"give and take" relationship

my friends, some of you cannot be farther from the Truth in Jesus.

What can we offer the Lord? Besides the Faith that He gives us to have Faith in Him with?

This is very good discussion BTW. and I'm happy to be involved.

There are many that are struggling with sinful thought and activity and love God but do not know that all their sins are gone.

I taught my little 5 and 6 year olds in class that God is no longer angry at us. An why? Because sin was judged already. How much? All! So, if all was judged at Calvary, what is left for you and me to pay for?

I mean every respect of offense. To religion that is but no one personally. Many Scriptures that have been pulled out have nothing to do with the flesh works of the post.

Flesh is not sinning acts of sins. Flesh is attempting to offer God anything in order to get anything. That's living by the flesh and not the Spirit. It's also called religion, no matter how many holy words you attach to it.

now, how do we learn obedience? Not by "trying harder" not to sin! But obedience to what? Specifically, WHO? To The Faith of the Son of God! In other words, Christ and Him Crucified for payment of all sin.

To answer the quote directly, Where at all do we see any example of us giving anything besides filthy rags to our Lord? Filthy rags are actions and behaviors that we think God is pleased with.

No, none of that. We can only TAKE from our Lord. And He gave freely. You're getting good preaching whether you realize it or not.

By the renewal of the mind we are Transformed from Glory to Glory into His image. By seeing Jesus, high and Lifted above all self can ever offer, we are made into His image. By knowing what He has done for us and all we are freely given, we are changed from the inside out. Supernaturally and never by efforts of self-law.

I mean no personal harm to anyone but I do mean destruction to the flesh's attempt at stealing God's Glory. He hates religion.

 2011/1/28 20:13Profile


Knitefall, none of us mean any offense to each other - I Know that.

We're all just fellowshipping. Someone said that was a bunch of fellows in a ship.

You asked "What can we offer the LORD?"

What He's asked for in His Word. Faith unto Obedience.

Obedience is all through the NT.

As far as this one issue of sexual sin - all Scripture in the NT just says - in plain English - "Don't".

The Word of GOD is so full of Scripture about sexual sins, because it was and is a problem in the Church and shouldn't be.

I'm grieving in my heart today - so understand that I'm not coming down on you or anyone else - but we NEED to stick with the WHOLE of "what is written" in the NT or we're going to have an aweful hard time in the days to come.

So, I pray that we'll all bury our heads in the only Living Words written - His.

Maybe we could continue this on this other thread. If nothing else - it's worth a read.

Why? Because, it is written - to Christians - that no sexually immoral, etc. person will enter the Kingdom of Heaven - so maybe this other thread would be a good place to move this talk?


 2011/1/28 20:31

Joined: 2010/12/28
Posts: 20


I THANK YOU FATHER FOR YOUR WORD!!! I truly thank Jesus for HIS WORD!!! His word is the ONLY true words that we as Christians have to cling to IF we truly believe in Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and truly seek and desire to know the truth of the one we call Father.

I say all of this because as one who is still yet learning and striving, it can be very easy for me to be swayed back and forth with all kinds of teachings, but I THANK GOD (I can't say that enough!) for HIS GRACE, and HIS WORD, and HIS LOVE, and MERCY in my life, and always leading back to HIS WORD when doubt, or confusion tries to set in!

KNITEFALL, everything that you have stated for someone like me who barely escaped the flames of hell, and who is everyday fighting the good fight of Christianity to stay in the grace of God seems too good to be true, and in fact... I believe that it is too good to be true. When I think over all of the things that I have done... all of the gross sins that I was caught up in and some that I still battle, but with God's help WILL overcome... to believe that because I profess to believe that Jesus died for my sins, ALL of my sins are now washed away, so that's it. I just kick back and rest in knowing that it is done with no work other than just believing on my part is a hard concept to wrap my mind around even though it is TEMPTING to do so.

I DON'T AT ALL believe that one has to literally work his/her way into heaven by running around slaving doing all kinds of outwardly "good things." I do absolutely believe that we are to carry out the WORKS OF THE SPIRIT, which bring about much fruit in our lives. I most certainly believe that we are to HUMBLE ourselves before the Lord, by putting off our flesh... fornication, lying, stealing, etc... so that we are lifted up by God's grace and formed more into His likeness.

How do you explain what Paul was saying when he made this statement; 1Co 9:27 But I keep under[buffet] my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Reading the post of others who are in opposition to your thoughts, and seeing that they have provided scriptures (God's words, not man), unless I don't believe God, and I do... His word, His thoughts, His commands, are what we should be adhering, and clinging to. Not our own because I would love to believe your thoughts on this... trust me. It would make for a much simpler, NOT so selfless life of living for God.

I would love to see scriptures and your thoughts on them that would back up your belief on this topic, Please.

Thank you and God Bless. I am very interested in learning more about the Word of God.

 2011/1/28 20:50Profile

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


awesome post FooFee

I must go to sleep for work tomorrow. And I have already compiled a list of Scripture for us to go over later. good night.

 2011/1/28 22:22Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)


knitefall wrote:
sadly, this is law and will never work.

What? I humbly and quietly object, Zac Poonen is the top new covenant preacher, I know of no other who has opened the Scriptures about the new covenant like he has, but that could just be me.

Everyone who has ever been raised in church knows that Sodom was full of sexual sins; I thought it was very astute of Zac to bring out that God never said he destroyed them because of their sexual sins BUT because of their pride, laziness, gluttony and neglecting the poor and needy.

I believe Zac is right on because I’ve heard Derek Prince associate that those who have sexual sins have problems with gluttony.

And sexual sins are all about self-indulgence, are they not? So it stands to reason that that self-indulgence spreads its tentacles into the other four areas of a person’s life and MORE if that person is married.

If a person who has problems with pornography, adultery, homosexuality; if they would take an honest look into their life (with the Holy Ghost’s help); they would see that self-indulgence or selfishness is a huge problem.

God bless you,


 2011/1/29 6:16Profile

 Re: Sword Drill

Amen Foofee and Lysa. Some of us are well aquainted with this sin of sexual immorality to the point of being able to speak to it because we've either dealt long term with people in this sin or some have struggled themselves and/or others have studied GOD's WORD long and hard enough to be fair on the topic.

A "sword drill" is not a sword "fight".
In children's Sunday school we'd have "sword drills" for the children, for them to learn Scripture. It's neat to see the children get excited about finding Scripture and learning how to use The WORD and learn it at the same time.
There was nothing remotely hostile in it, it was merely a learning tool.

As adults, we need to learn what a good Sword-Drill is too.

Knitefall, we're ready - bring it on. :)

I think you'll find out why I, just for one of us, can be a member of a Reformed Theology Church and still not be of the easy-believism class.

Sanity is found somewhere in the middle. As in, The 'Whole' Counsel of GOD.

You'll find that we may not disagree as much as you thought, but at the same time, we'll be showing that one set of Scriptures never cancels-out another set of Scriptures.

The WORD of GOD is our Savior & His Scriptures. Praise The LORD!

But actually, you're way behind here in this drill, because a lot of Scripture has been laid out for you already on page 1, that you have not addressed, verse by verse.
Before you bring yours on - it would only be right for you to address all the Scripture already presented. Thank you!

 2011/1/29 7:27

Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


We shall have a wonderful time soon. I have the Scriptures ready and after work today, I will present them. It will be night by the time I get loosed from being a bondslave... so have fun in the while.

Here is a snippet of my Gospel:

Because the posted topic is really about 'Overcoming Sins,' there is only One, very narrow road to walk, if you're going to correctly have the eyes to 'see' it.


let's say you come home and tell your wife,

"Honey, I didn't cheat on you today because the Law says not to and I didn't want to go to hell for breaking the law..."

Now, She wouldn't be excited about that would she? If anything, she'd doubt and not be very happy at all about you keeping law.

Yet in Christianity, we treat God as if the highest form of worship is to try and obey all the Law. And this so in this mentallity, "Okay, I got Saved and now I can do it... thank you Jesus, I got it from here."

Jesus came to fulfill it. It's paid for! Which is another topic of paying (making sacrifice) for sins not covered by the Blood of the Lamb.

If the bank forgives a debt, what use would it be to get a job and try and pay it off yourself?

They'd think you're crazy! So why do many Christians, w/o realizing they're doing it, try and pray real hard to get sin out, read their Bible until they fall asleep to get sins out, fast to 'put the flesh down' and all other manner of attempting to earn by the law, something from God?

The Holy Spirit did not teach them that! And they do not understand the sin problem and do not understand what the flesh really is.

Now let me give you the other chapter to our story.

"Honey, I know you LOVE me and when that opportunity came, all I could think about was of how much you LOVE me and I had to just come home to see you."

The Father treats us with such great love.

Yet, we got idiot preachers saying total garbage like, "If you preach that from behind the pulpit, you'll have a Church full of sin! They need to hear about breaking God's commandments! They need to hear about judgment of Hell! They need to be told all about the horror of Sin so we can scare them into Heaven!"

Um, NO! Not at all WHAT-SO-EVER!!!

It's the wife who says, "Dear, I'll always love you, no matter if you beat me, spit in my face, pull my hair, run around on me, say mean things to me. No matter what you say, there is nothing you can do to make me stop loving you."

Now, see the difference? At that moment, there is not a bone in that man's body that desires to do ANY harm to his wife.

And how much more Does God love on us? He gives us FREE Grace- that's worse than 'greasy' Grace isn't it? Take as much as you want!!!

If you understand Grace and how it came to be (Calvary's Holy Loving Sacrifice) you will not see a license to sin at all. What man thinks, "Hmm, my wife will love me no matter what. I think I'll beat her and cheat with others?"

That is all the time I have for this morning. I'll be posting tonight. Don't go in the Rapture w/o me, Shawn.

 2011/1/29 9:50Profile

Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 30


We are called to lift our eyes away from ourselves and look into the face of our Loving Savior. It is the the beauty of HIS holiness, HIS righteousness and HIS perfection that changes us. Looking upon our own failure and wretchedness and "trying" different things to "overcome", only reveals to us how impotent we are to change the inward. Oh, we may change the outward, to be sure, but then the subtle work of the devil will fill our heart with pride, self-assurance and self-justification.

Jesus Himself said, “Apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). It’s all Jesus, all Jesus, all Jesus. That’s how we entered the new life, that’s how we walk it, that’s how we are glorified and live for ever with Him.

It’s all of grace. All of it.

We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of our testimony. Our testimony is Him, all Him. It is not us. Our testimony is His testimony, JESUS. The testimony of who He is and what HE has done. Not our works of righteousness (self-discipline, fasting, etc) That is very Hindu-ish.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access by faith (the only thing that pleases God) into His grace. And this is the only thing we can stand in.

Faith, not works. You will forever be finding some terrible thing within you to fast about, to "try" to overcome. And as you "master" each sin in your life, the pride will grow inside you. This is the great "head fake" that the enemy does to us. He moves us away from beholding the Lord's beauty to beholding our failures and then moves us into subtle self-righteousness. That is why there are so many "character based" ministries today. They emphasize character and have many "gold nuggets" of teaching on how you can improve your character. It is nothing more than legal righteousness and not righteousness by faith. Many of the children grow up and become shipwrecked, in these families, because their life growing up was one of legalism and not all-consuming love for the Lord. There was no inward encounter with God, only outward obedience.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Foofee, look to Jesus, love Jesus. Concentrating on your sin and weakness, and trying to overcome them will only put you into a deeper and more dangerous bondage. One that will cause you to justify yourself before God.

Read Psalm 51 to see what David did when he fell into sexual sin and was confronted by God's prophet. Did he rely on his own strength, cleverness, discipline or did he go to God?

It agrees perfectly with James 4.

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Many take James 4 to mean that we need to do a lot of self-discipline but taking the NT in context, these things we know:

The way you resist the Devil, is by drawing near to God. The way that you cleanse your hands and purify your heart is by repentance which is drawing near to God. You must forsake pride to draw near to God. Drawing near to God shows that you are humbling yourself.

Notice that James 4 never tells us to try this or try that. To work, work, work, on the "easy" sins first and then the hard ones will go away.

Draw near to God. James 4 and Psalm 51 tell us how to.


Because you can do nothing apart from Him. Abide in Him, rest in His finished work.

If Sodom and Gomorrah repented (which acknowledges God through humility), God would have had mercy.

If Sodom and Gomorrah, instead of repenting, just used self-discipline to stop their sinful activities on the outside, which requires no acknowledgment of God or inward change, they would have still been destroyed.

Likewise, if you clean up your life by your efforts and discipline, will you be saved and what will you teach others?

Some men have great self-discipline and are not drawn to outwardly wicked sins (they are all wicked by the way). And because some of us have never participated in the classically wicked sins of the flesh, we could easily tend to think that we are something when we are not.

What is Jesus saying here?

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Your self-discpline and self-mastery over sin will only exalt you.

 2011/1/29 12:22Profile


by knitefall

We shall have a wonderful time soon. I have the Scriptures ready and after work today, I will present them. It will be night by the time I get loosed from being a bondslave... so have fun in the while.

No we can't have a wonderful time Brother, because you still haven't addressed the Scriptures we posted first.

Scripture never contradicts out Scripture - so despite what you bring to the table - it won't negate those posted on pg 1.

Here we go with that 'striving lawfully' type scenario again. :)

Doctrine needs to be obtained through the Full counsel of GOD - so let's please start with those verses that were presented to you first. Otherwise, we just ain't playin' this ball fairly - right?

No worry - I'm a post-tribber so I ain't goin' up yet, unless He'd grant me the honor of taking me Home today.
To die is gain.


 2011/1/29 12:24


restinHim, could you be open to the fact that I agree with you 100% and yet must again bring up all of these 'other' Scriptures that tell us 'our' part. All of the "do's and don'ts" in the N.T. and all that is written of what His disciples did, in the first church(es).

Our part that we 'do' in His Strength, His leading and by the power of His Spirit and His Word within us.

 2011/1/29 12:31

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