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blandina
Member



Joined: 2011/1/25
Posts: 48


 Re:

I don't think anyone is decrying Godly leadership.

I hope that is not being implied. And I hope that it is not being implied that someone is being rebellious, if they don't necessarily embrace the clergy/laity system.

I also don't see anyone talking about any particular man and we all can plainly see examples of ungodly and godly leadership, today.

Should we equate the clergy/laity system with Godly leadership? No, a system does not ensure Godly leadership. Godly leadership is all about the heart, not a particular system. I think that is part of the problem today. The sheep are made to believe if someone is part of the "clergy", then they are godly and authoritative. But we all know that, that is not necessarily true.

We don't submit to man, just because he has a certain hierarchical position over us. We are to discern the Body, and discern the Spirit of God in a man and submit to the Spirit of God. Isn't that correct? If my thinking is not correct, please let me know. I don't wish to argue, but I also don't wish to be put in the "rebellious box".

But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Maybe we should move on to a new thread, before misunderstandings continue.

 2011/1/28 10:35Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Personally i have learnt that God loves us all. I know a younger man who know so much of Gods word yet 'submits' to my 'eldership' (for lack of a better term) there are times when he goes to far of to the right or left and the spirit brings him back to christ centred theology. We have learnt and incredible amount together age or 'office' is never an issue it has always been a joy to study Gods word with this man. The other day he came with me to fellowship and made a statement that was spirit inpired and biblical yet the church leaders sat thier and patronised him to the point they made him feel really bad. All because they could swallow thier pride and allow God to do a great work through this young fellow. It was disheartening to see and made me wonder how many precious sheep of flocks do we discourage because of our pride, self-importance and religion? How many people have been turned away from xtian internet sites because of the unkind harsh treatment they received? All i could do was keep encouraging this young friend but it feels like the only fellowship i enjoy these days are small house fellowship where people just love Jesus. This whole 'man of God', 'touch not my anointed' thing makes me wonder was that created by God or man.

 2011/1/28 11:00Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:



Quote:
We don't submit to man, just because he has a certain hierarchical position over us. We are to discern the Body, and discern the Spirit of God in a man and submit to the Spirit of God. Isn't that correct? If my thinking is not correct, please let me know. I don't wish to argue, but I also don't wish to be put in the "rebellious box".



I am sorry if I implied that Blandina, it was not my intention, I was referring more to a tone in general and a theme I have seen in some believers in my own life and even on "occasion" here on these forums. In some cases it is from people who have gone away, it really had nothing to do with your posts whatsoever. Please do not think I was speaking to you. (I was building more on what Greg said to be honest.) I prefer to discuss things in a general sense, and as the forum rules dictate, we are to "play the ball, not the man." As much as possible, I attempt to do that on these forums. I think there are a few times I have had to apologize for being personal.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/28 11:13Profile
blandina
Member



Joined: 2011/1/25
Posts: 48


 Re:

Hi Rainman,

That would definitely be an example of ungodly leadership.

David was an example of godly leadership and Saul was an example of ungodly leadership. David respected Saul's anointing but Saul was jealous and envious of David's anointing.

A David will be patronized and marginalized in the kingdom of Saul and eventually driven out. Saul is a typology of the flesh or religiousity. David is a type of Christ or true Shepherd's heart.

David had to flee Saul's kingdom, because Saul threw a spear at him and could not stand for him to be around. Saul sought the honor of man and saw that the people went after and respected David. David did not seek Saul's position, but Saul felt threatened anyway. David eventually left without being a schizmatic and bring division. God gave him a band of men to fellowship with in the wilderness and God was with David.

Ungodly leadership always feels threatened by those that truly have an anointing from the Lord. So, it has nothing to do with external position. But it has everything to do with our hearts submitted to God.

 2011/1/28 11:13Profile
blandina
Member



Joined: 2011/1/25
Posts: 48


 Re:

Quote:
I was referring more to a tone in general and a theme I have seen in some believers in my own life and even on "occasion" here on these forums.



Hi Areadymind,

I have learned not to try to interpret "tones" in text, email, PMs or the like. It is nearly impossible, if you do not personally know the person.

A friend who knows me would automatically "know" where I was coming from.

Interpreting tones in text, is an ever-losing battle. Love believes all things and giving each other the benefit of the doubt is a better way to go, IMO.

 2011/1/28 11:18Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Quote:
Interpreting tones in text, is an ever-losing battle. Love believes all things and giving each other the benefit of the doubt is a better way to go, IMO.



Amen. Thank you for using that verse in that way. I struggled with that passage of scripture for a long time, and the way you just applied it is how I think the Holy Spirit showed me that it is supposed to be applied. Thank you for that confirmation. What a blessing.

As to the other things being said on this thread, this issue is a hot topic today because of abuse. I can completely understand why there is frustration over this issue today. Yet I am also concerned about the backlash, that is the only point I was trying to make.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/28 11:23Profile
blandina
Member



Joined: 2011/1/25
Posts: 48


 Re:

I completely understand where you are coming from and do appreciate your heart on the matter. There is much spiritual abuse today, and sadly, it almost all emanates from people lording over other people. I notice that the Lord said twice in Revelation, that He hates the deeds of the Nicolaitans. He is passionate about anyone coming between He and His children.

The bad thing about text is that you have to type and wait, type and wait, type and wait, until you get the full "feel" for a person's heart and in between, waiting there may be a train wreck.

But talking in person, this could all be coverd in one 5 minutes conversation. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that scripture is pretty good for this type of communication. Be at peace and have a good day.

 2011/1/28 11:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Not exactly. There is no given formula that that is what was done



True. I was talking in general more about the notion of small group meetings. The exact number isn't really relevant. That is mostly left up to practical considerations.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2011/1/28 11:51Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

blandinia wrote:

Quote:

There is no precedence in scripture for the other thing that he talked about... don't see big groups of 8 and 12 or more. Another "good idea", but not the way God works.



Well, Jesus did actively disciple 12 individuals on a very intimate basis. And when Paul called the Ephesian elders together, they knew exactly "what manner of man" Paul was. Indeed, for Paul to so loudly talk about the example he lived before the entire church regularly throughout his letters shows that there was much more than two or three people actively hanging around Paul. From a practical stand point, it's not an impractical thing to have a dozen people that you are closely working with.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2011/1/28 11:57Profile
blandina
Member



Joined: 2011/1/25
Posts: 48


 Re:

Doesn't seem to be the rule, but certainly not impossible.

I guess we shouldn't make up rules.

With God all things are possible.

 2011/1/28 12:00Profile





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