"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: "urbanus"|
Brothers and sisters,
We have 100% no tolerance for accusing other people, pray and leave it to the Lord, we can discuss the scriptures and doctrines and issues but please let us all not speak publicly against anyone here on the forums. If this is continued we will ask people to leave the forums who want to carry on this behaviour. We ask this by the grace of the Lord so we do not sin against each other and show love.
The site moderators ask you before you post that you consider praying and ask the Lord if you have the right spirit to serve others in the body of Christ before posting and pressing the submit button. Please also look at these scriptures: Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2011/1/25 2:33||Profile|
| Re: |
My apologies. It was not my intention to cause discord or confusion. I will leave this forum.
| 2011/1/25 10:10||Profile|
| Re: |
These quotes are from someone who believes that Christians can be "demon possessed" and that topic was very well discussed on this Forum before, where a Brother here proved out plainly that the word "possessed" is not even in the text, for one thing.
Where that Greek word is used in the NT, that I left in my last post - It was in the context of unsaved people that were delivered. After they were delivered they followed GOD.
The book brought forth in the opening post of this thread has Nothing whatsoever to do with what followed with these post quotes from page 1 and 2.
"" (i.e. a spirit of murder (hatred) or a spirit of Adultery, lying spirits, deceiving spirits or if they receive a spirit of fear). Do you think they just want to sit on your shoulder?
How many do you know that have a spirit of adultery/lust (pornography) or hate their fellow brother and sister (spirit of murder, divorce)? They are all around us. You think a person that is possessed is only a raving lunatic, demoniac?
.....there are more demon possessed people in a church building than you can shake a stick at. And the stain glass windows are not keeping them out.
..... a lying spirit and a homosexual spirit.
(i.e. a spirit of murder (hatred) or a spirit of Adultery, lying spirits, deceiving spirits or if they receive a spirit of fear).
.... a spirit of suicide or a spirit of rejection and self-hatred. ""
Combine any of these "spirits of _________" with the word being propagated on this thread, "Possessed" and you've destroyed; GOD only knows; how many young people's minds. The young people now-a-days know more about witchcraft, Satanism, the occult than any generation than we have lived through thus far and they are well aware of what "being possessed" means. If you do not care about the young in Christ - He will hold you accountable - very much so.
So my concern here is the young in Christ. I do not enjoy Debates at all. The 17 yo that has just been saved for one year - That is where my thinking is toward. Imagine him/her reading these things, please.
My posts are aimed at bringing in Scriptural quotes that will show any Christian where they stand in Christ's Victory for us and how we can have victory over the lies of the evil one.
That only by "entertaining sin" or "living in sin" or sitting under wrong leadership & teaching will cause them to lose faith or open themselves up for 'attack' from the enemy.
We cannot blame a struggle with sin on all of the quotes above and should definitely not open the door for anyone to be TEMPTED WITH SUICIDE, thinking it is because there is a chance that they are "possessed with a spirit of suicide", so that it's not their own doing or fault if they do it. To continue to allow a young person to think that "spirits of this or that" are going to "possess" them is totally callous.
When I first got saved - I had to "fight the firey darts of temptation and condemnation or despair" to NOT commit instantaneous suicide until the point that I almost became an expert at this battle. For "we are not ignorant of his devices."
Some of us have over sensitive consciences that Overly fear displeasing GOD -- the enemy of our souls Knows that and will come in with some of the strongest Accusations you can imagine - even using Scripture against us. Imagine such a person being made to believe that they can be "demon possessed". I have seen this and it's the saddest most frightful and Pitiful thing on earth for a sincere Christian.
On the other side of the coin - I've seen Christians with a lack of conscience, that use the 'excuse' that "a spirit of such or such" causes them or Makes them to do what they know they shouldn't be doing, until they become backslidden, having lost all faith or consciously become reprobate with the excuse.
I listed those Scriptures on the previous page to counteract any of the above from ever happening to any young in Christ, who do not know where they stand in Christ. To Know that we are protected, that sin is choice, that possession of a Christian is not Scriptural and had planned to post all the more about "putting on the full armor" etc. and possibly use material from this book or others that define spiritual oppression and the like in better terms.
If one young person gives into sin completely, thinking it's because they are "possessed" or thinks that a "spirit of suicide" can have the victory because of quotes like the above - Woe to them who have taught or allowed it.
When I was under "attack by fiery darts" that wanted to kill me - I took a Journal and began to hand write all the Scriptures that I could find that spoke of where we stand in Christ. I was a young in Christ and I know that is what kept me from risking hell by giving in to these Overwhelming injected thoughts to end it all. Of course Satan wants to send us to hell in anyway that he can - so let's protect each other.
GOD's WORD recommends the sharpening of "the sword of the Spirit" --- His WORD, to be strengthened in all of us and so does Corrie ten Boom, just for one - regarding fighting the strong deceptions that "are yet to come" on this planet.
We are tempted of our own lusts or weak points and where we lack in the knowledge of His Word. The enemy Knows what our own lusts are and yes - "will sit on our shoulder" and assist with the temptations, yet we must always know that we are accountable for our sin in the end.
The enemy is more capable of using a person's "imagination" than anything --- just by telling the person that they "'feel' something in their body" ---- and the mind being a most powerful thing, Can produce those "feelings". Satan is a liar but his lies, "if believed", can drive someone into actual physical or mental torment and there's no reason 'whatsoever' that we should keep the unlearned in that state. The enemy is capable of injecting thoughts of Every kind into the person that they want to bring down - convincing the Saint of more condemnation than they can handle until they are totally oppressed (from the outside) - BUT - there is freedom in the Sword of the Spirit and the armor - His Truth - His Living Word - His Finished Work on the Cross and His Indwelling Holy Spirit.
I may not express myself as eloquently as I desire to - but if just one young person is reading a thread - That is where my mind stays and what my motive is and not to debate because I like to or have nothing better to do. Debates drain me - others enjoy them - but there are times that we all must or should "contend for the faith" and "tend His lambs".
Thank you in advance for any consideration.
| 2011/1/25 11:17|
| Re: |
I FOR ONE APPRECIATE YOUR CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH!!! I have been going through a lot of things that have tried to lure me into a DEEP PIT OF DESPAIR!!! Only by God's grace am I still able to press forward, KNOWING that HIS word is TRUE! And the battle that I am in is not mine, but the LORD's. Your knowledge and wisdom has helped me JESUS-IS-GOD, and I am so sure many others! Your pressing on in this thread is NOT in vain.
| 2011/1/25 13:25||Profile|
| Re: |
Praise GOD Sister. If you Know His Word Is True - you've got it ALL! :) Amen!!!
I prepared another post offline, and was just returning to post it here.
Sister, you are a blessing because when you first signed on as a member here with your testimony of retaking the ground, it was at a time that I was so discouraged because I was seeing far too many "giving up ground".
Jesus Bless you Sister, 1Th 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Amen, our LORD Jesus Bless you!
Eph 2:20 And are builtG2026 uponG1909 theG3588 foundationG2310 of theG3588 apostlesG652 andG2532 prophets,G4396 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 himselfG846 beingG5607 the chief cornerG204 stone;
Eph 2:21 InG1722 whomG3739 allG3956 theG3588 buildingG3619 fitly framed togetherG4883 growethG837 untoG1519 an holyG40 templeG3485 inG1722 the Lord:G2962
Eph 2:22 InG1722 whomG3739 yeG5210 alsoG2532 are builded togetherG4925 forG1519 AN HABITATIONG2732 of GodG2316 throughG1722 the Spirit.G4151
In order to Correctly make use of a word used in the Bible - one Must see How it is used - in context.
This is the word for "possessed of a or of devils". Looking at these in context - these people were Not Saved.
These are the Only places that this word "possessed or vexed" is found and these devils 'needed' to be "cast Out" of these unsaved people.
Total KJV Occurrences: 25
Mat_4:24, Mat_8:16, Mat_8:28, Mat_8:33, Mat_9:32, Mat_12:22, Mar_1:32, Mar_5:15-16 (2), Mar_5:18, Luk_8:36
Mat_9:32, Mat_15:22 (2), Mar_5:15-16 (2), Mar_5:18, Joh_10:21
Mat_4:24, Mat_8:16, Mat_8:28, Mat_8:33, Mar_1:32, Luk_8:36
The point being - that only the unsaved can be "possessed" and needed to have the demon(s) "cast out" of them.
Possessed means, indwelling. The losing of one's will to the power of an indwelling spirit. The "faculties" being under demonic "control", over-riding self-will or causing actual physical or mental illness ... though not all diseases of the body are due to demon possession. (Remember Paul's advise to Timothy about his frequent infirmities and stomach troubles.)
Demons are "cast out" of the unsaved for the purpose of the propagation of the Gospel.
Next would be to look at every verse that contains the word "cast out" (eject - expel out) - ekballo, that is connected with "possession" to see if we can find ANY instances where Christians had demons "cast out" of them, that were either possessed or vexed and to see that Whenever there was a case of possession or vexation the demons Had to be "cast out".
Answer: Never happened!
"Retaking the battle field of the mind", back to the thoughts of The WORD, is not the casting out of demons, but the casting out of every thought that exalts itself above the knowledge of GOD and taking captive every thought to the obedience of Christ - to the only source of Pure Truth - The WORD of GOD.
In searching the whole of the New Testament - what are we warned about our own "sin". To whom is the blame placed and what and how are we to deal with demonic "attacks" and "temptations"?
This is where the lazy fail. They will not go to His Word and study these things, so they lead others astray with even the use of just one word - "possessed" - or next "the spirit of _________."
Most Bible Programs, such as e-sword, gives you the ability to do a Bible Search for these phrases.
Type in "the spirit of" as a Phrase and see if any of these people were Christians. Remembering that the phrase "spirit of" does not always mean an actual "seperate spirit" but a character attribute or disposition, and we know which Spirit this verse is describing - Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD
Luk 4:33-35 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
Luk 13:11-13 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.....Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (This one is not "cast out" but a state of mind)
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. (once again, this also is a state of mind)
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (Try casting this one out)
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. ( from the father of lies)
And then of course, there was the case of a "Legion" of demons.
Believe it or not - That's It in the N.T. for "spirit of", in the negative sense, from our only source of Truth.
If the fear of "being possessed of a spirit" overtakes a Christian -- who is to say "how many" will "enter"?
The WORD gives no accounts of demons "entering" a regenerated/born from above person - Christian.
Scripture interprets Scripture which forms sound doctrine.
Read the Epistles to see how we as Christians are to deal with the enemy and how we are to deal with temptation to sin and/or sin itself. Don't go beyond what is written. Deception - which is anything that is contrary to Biblical truth, can get a stronghold on a person, if they so choose to fall under this deception. There is nothing Biblical to say that deception happens apart from the will of an individual - though ignorance of His Word can cause deception - false teachers and so forth - but there is still no excuse for anyone to be under deception if they have "The Spirit of Truth" resident in them and a Bible. Fear of being rejected by a teacher/leader/preacher or group is a sin, but that is why many sit under deceptive or wrong teachings or treatment and the deception will come from staying there. Fear of men, fear of rejection, needs to be dealt with by the Word.
With spiritual warfare (or any matter), "do not go beyond what is written" in and by The WORD of GOD.
To encourage, Paul writes - "Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, Do: and the God of peace shall be with you." Amen!
| 2011/1/25 13:34|
| Re: A Biblical Survey of Satanic Deception by Jesse-Penn Lewis|
URBAMUS and others:
I have found that when it comes to lying, stealing, adultry, etc. deal with it as sin and then deal with the root of that sin in the old man/self life. If there is anything left after that then consider possession.
This has been very fruitful including with those diagnosed with major mental disorders. The only explanation I have is that familiar spirits, principalities, powers hate the Light and flee.
It seems odd to me to approach restoring a brother taken in the fault of stealing with deliverance from possession by a demon of stealing.
I am NOT saying that individuals are not possessed by demons. Many other posters have come close to saying this: DEAL WITH SIN AS SIN FIRST. If there is anything left consider the need for deliverance from demons.
| 2011/1/25 17:33||Profile|
| Re: A Biblical Survey of Satanic Deception by Jesse-Penn Lewis|
What I had really hoped for when I read the first posts in this thread, is that we could go on to identify, in scripture, additional examples/instruction on how principalities, powers, demons operate in this war... and the responses that count to God. Kinda an adding on to the "Biblical Survey" of Penn-Lewis. I found an awesome example in last week's bible study with BSF in Isa.36-38,39. Here is a focus on 36: 4-20.
I think that the very principalities operating in the OT, operate today. Just as the Assyrian army had conquered one fortified city of Judah after another, one church after another is falling today. You can see in the 8 arguments made by the field commander of the Assyrian army that came against Judah the very tactics used today.
"What confidence is this that you rebel?"[against Assyria]. Vain words [Isaiah's counsel, their source of strength] (4-5); You only hurt yourself more by trusting in another nation [oraganization]as they've not helped others. (v. 6) Insisting on worshiping at only one alter is so narrow minded that God will not help you (v.7). Even if we gave you weapons we posses, you wouldn't have the power or men needed to defeat our smallest contingent (v.8-9).
The enemy speaks half-truths (v.10 Isaiah had said). And speaks in the [religious] language of God's people (11-13). He says, don't trust your King [leader] (v. 14) or let him tell you to trust in the Lord (v.15). Agree with me and give me something, things will be go good and I have a place for you that is as good as what you have here. (16-17).
I could go on much more: Religious reform has gotten you in trouble [loss of members, upset]. You can read for yourself Hezekiah's glory to God response and what God did (Isa. 37). The Holy Spirit can bring many things to mind in applying this passage like we do not use the weapons of the enemy, and in exposing the sophestry used today.
| 2011/1/25 17:37||Profile|
| Last days application -|
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
No longer future tense. Updated version -- And because iniquity Has abounded, the love of Most Has waxed cold.
| 2011/1/26 2:03|
| 2011/1/26 10:26||Profile|
| Re: |
Dear Blandina, Amen on The WORD.
I wish I could listen to what you have posted. My server is so weak that I cannot get audio/videos.
| 2011/1/26 10:32|