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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : A Biblical Survey of Satanic Deception by Jesse-Penn Lewis

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 Re:

Your post wasn't there when I typed mine -

"Jesse never said that." At this point, as many times as I've read her book and passed it on - I don't care "what Jesse said" - please, let us go Sola Scriptura with this vital topic. To be "possessed" by a spirit = "spirit enters spirit" - just as the HOLY Spirit enters our spirit. These are spiritual beings that only have the power to lie to Christians. If they, "by their own lusts" open a door to being tormented by a demon or demons, then even as Jesse said - they need to renew their minds and be washed with the cleansing of The WORD.

Casting OUT demons is for the unsaved's deliverance.
We can pray with a genuine Christian against a spirit that has somehow fooled them into thinking that demon has more power than GOD/Christ over them.

The way to deliverance is HIS WORD - for a true Christian.
His WORD is Truth and Satan is the father of lies.
We put on the full armor of GOD - NOT so that we won't be possessed, but that we can fight with His WORD, as Jesus did in the wilderness, with full Authority of His Victory for us on the Cross.

Quote: "Tell me what a Christian will receive when he fears man to the point of debilitating? What does a Christian receive when he goes over to the homosexual lifestyle? Can you answer that? What does a Christian receive when he lies continually to his wife or congregation about his porn addiction?"

He risks his salvation! By his own freewill. Period, according to SCRIPTURE.

You don't seem to understand the difference between "possession" and "oppression" or being 'deceived' by believing a "lie" or a FALSE DOCTRINE/Teaching.

What will open the door to "oppression or believing a lie" which opens the door to more lies from Satan or demons is not knowing The WORD of GOD and where His Sheep 'stand' by His finished work on the Cross or the person not "putting their flesh to death", "deeming themselves dead onto sin".

I can understand a person being tormented by believing a lie about where they stand in Christ because they are new in the Faith of Jesus and being 'fearful' as a result, and GOD help the one who teaches these lies.

But we are and always will be responsible for what we do, once we are Saved. And Pastors, teachers or any mature Christian should always lead people to the Bible Only.

Repentence for opening these doors to demonic influence is what is in order here. And sometimes, it's the teacher of these false doctrines that need to repent seriously and not the Babe in Christ who believed them and thus suffered the fears or stumbling that these teachings have caused.

Keep blaming the devil for Christian's sins and check it against what Scripture says about sin and see where it leads to. I already know.



 2011/1/24 16:47
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

Quote:
Quote: "Tell me what a Christian will receive when he fears man to the point of debilitating? What does a Christian receive when he goes over to the homosexual lifestyle? Can you answer that? What does a Christian receive when he lies continually to his wife or congregation about his porn addiction?"

He risks his salvation! By his own freewill. Period, according to SCRIPTURE.



I said what does a Christian receive. I did not say what does a Christian risk.

Somehow, I must be speaking Chinese because you cannot even follow what I am saying.

What does a Christian receive when he turns himself over to the homosexual lifestyle? He gives himself over and Paul the Apostle in the Word of God would say that he received another spirit.

You don't want to answer that do you? You want to just say he receives a lie. But not a lying spirit and a homosexual spirit. You don't want to believe that he receives within himself a stronghold. If it was just a lie then we could tell him the truth, right? But somehow it is not that easy for the poor guy to extricate himself from that lifestyle. Yes, it was his fault. No one else's. Talk to Christians that were Christians then homosexuals then delivered and back in their right mind again. I know, you will just say their theology is confused.

Ok, whatever. How do you help Christians that are in torment? Real torment verging on suicide. What do you do? And why for that matter would a Christian contemplate suicide? Oh, I forgot, he received a lie. Not a spirit of suicide or a spirit of rejection and self-hatred. Ok, let's just tell him the truth and everything will be ok.

 2011/1/24 17:33Profile









 Re: Vicky Dillen

Edit:

No point in going on. Discernment is advised,

 2011/1/24 18:22
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

Besides being against the gifts of the Spirit Vickey Dillen is completely against War on the Saints. Yes, and she is definitely a complete cessassionist.

 2011/1/24 18:30Profile









 Re:

What Paul was talking about in 2 Corth 11:4 was receiving of other "men" who preach another gospel and operate through "another spirit" - such as we've seen in this generation with Bentley, etc. ---- the people "received" him.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

In that chpt Paul had to defend his ministry against these others who were coming into Corinth with another Jesus and another/counterfeit spirit and not the Holy Spirit which Paul operated in. Just as we see now, in these days with these false teachers and "miracle workers".

Paul again is saying that they would "receive the man" who gives them what Paul hadn't given them which was The Truth and the Spirit of Truth. He was trying to catch them from "believing lies" -- 2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2Co 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
2Co 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
2Co 11:18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
2Co 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
2Co 11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.


I've answered all questions. Just as the Corinthians were about to believe a lie from a man - so men believe lies --- Anything that is the opposite of what is Written is a lie.

You cannot blame demons for men's choices and The WORD of GOD states plainly that to sin is to "choose to" sin. You would rather blame "a spirit of this or that".

I will not "just say their theology is confused" - I will say again what James says - Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I think you need to define "Christian" much better than you have in your own mind, lest you be swept away in these excuses.

A backslider can repent and turn back to the LORD, but Jesse was not talking about homosexuals - she was discussing people taking a passive mind and opening oneself to demonic influence. She was not talking about Blatant sin.

We're discussing your/her belief in CHRISTIANS being "demon possessed" - not those who are struggling with this or that.


btw - what happened to Evan Roberts after all of this teaching? I am beginning to believe that our Sister who posted here earlier was on to something here.


Any "Christian" who is being tempted by 'anything' is still in need of the same solution - His WORD and prayer! Not to have "demons cast 'out' of them."
We can pray against any enemy involvement in what they are going through but it is more important to first find out what lie they have bought/believed that is contrary to His Word, If they are Christians.
The Truth will set them free from the lie(s) - not telling them that they're "demon possessed".

You have a "spirit" for everything - I don't find that in His WORD. I find people that prefer a lie or due to ignorance of His WORD, believe a lie about themselves or how GOD feels toward them or what He's said in His WORD or through Rebellion, they 'choose' to believe a lie against His Word... but the fault will always remain in the mind not receiving or being fed The WORD and believing IT. Sometimes it's just due to being young in the LORD and not having proper discipleship - but with those who deliberately sin against His WORD - the same holds true ... they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless they repent.

I truly feel that you need to quit blaming demons for what GOD calls willful rebellion in responsible Christians.

We can cut some slack to the babes in Christ but anyone who's had a Bible and Jesus long enough to have at least read most of the N.T. realizes that they can't blame the devil or demons for their own choices to sin.

I still say that there are good points in her book about allowing ourselves to get into a "passive mind" state or accepting "physical feelings" as from GOD without Testing that, but I have been through this enough to know that and stand firm on the fact that 'Christians' cannot be demon "possessed".


My reply to your last sentence - Yes, I 'will' just tell them "the Truth" and pray with them that they'll receive it. Then I will read to the Christian all the verses that explain what Christ accomplished for us, because of His Great Love for us and that we are seated in Heavenly Places with Him, etc from His Word.


 2011/1/24 18:36
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

I have never blamed demons for man's choices. You cannot find that anywhere in print. I have been very clear.

We are truly speaking a different language.

See you on another thread. Maybe.

 2011/1/24 18:47Profile









 Re:

Suicide is a choice. It's the epitome of self-love. Those who are thinking of no one else but themselves. They want out of their pain regardless of what it does to others who know them. Thou shalt not kill - covers suicide as well - so suicide is "a sin".


In this last post you wrote: Quote: "I have never blamed demons for man's choices. You cannot find that anywhere in print. I have been very clear."


But what did you write about the sin of suicide?


Quote: "And why for that matter would a Christian contemplate suicide? Oh, I forgot, he received a lie. Not a spirit of suicide or a spirit of rejection and self-hatred. Ok, let's just tell him the truth and everything will be ok."


Not a "spirit of suicide" or a "spirit of rejection or self-hatred".

hmm. Is this not blaming "spirits" for man's choices?

Suicide is a choice.


Yes, I will tell him the Truth. "No man hateth his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it..."

"Love your neighbor AS yourselves" since Lev 19:18 on.

GOD is saying that humans don't "hate themselves" - the problem is and always will be, that we love ourselves more than we love GOD. We love ourselves too much.

Suicide is "self" pity. Self pity over "rejection" is just pride. I'm talking to Christians now. "Self hatred" is also a form of pride.

We're to die to self and not look to self for anything but to look to the Love of Christ.

That is why "Love" is the First Commandment from Lev and Deut 6 - "Love the LORD your GOD with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength." and this HE was saying to His people who did not have the Cross to look back on, nor the indwelling Holy Spirit, nor the regeneration that we have, nor the NT Scriptures.
Jesus told the Pharisees that if they had "loved GOD" they would have loved Him.

If we Love GOD the way we should, we wouldn't entertain what we do and if we loved our neighbors 'as' we love ourselves - well, how would our neighbors benefit by seeing a Christian kill themselves?


Hey, I wish you HIS Peace that passes All Understanding! Amen.




 2011/1/24 19:52
urbanus
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 17


 Re:

And the beat goes on..

Where do you get the understanding that a demonic spirit inhabits the human spirit?

Jessie never said that. You are postulating an incorrect assumption.

Demonic spirits implored Jesus to allow them to enter pigs. Not because they wanted to inhabit their spirit, but because they wanted to inhabit their flesh. It meant that they would not be cast into outer darkness.

The argument always gets changed on this. It become apples and oranges. No one is ever saying that the demon spirits inhabit the human spirit where the Holy Spirit is joined to.

It is enough for them to control the mind the will and the emotions. The possession of a person's faculties will oppress the spirit of a man.

Tell me what a Christian will receive when he fears man to the point of debilitating? What does a Christian receive when he goes over to the homosexual lifestyle? Can you answer that? What does a Christian receive when he lies continually to his wife or congregation about his porn addiction?

What did Paul mean in 2 Cor 11:4?

 2011/1/24 22:23Profile









 Re: We're discussing the word "Possessed"


You can march to which ever drummer's beat that you want to.

From the first - my argument is against using the phrase - "Christians can be possessed." Apples and oranges indeed.

You said - "The possession of a person's faculties"

THAT is not what we read in Scripture below. That is demon possession when a person's "faculties" are controlled by, owned by, possessed by" demonic spirits.


"Influence" - yes. "Lie to" - yes. "Oppress" - yes. "Possess" - NO.

"Possess" means "to own". "Possession" implies "ownership". Satanists are demon "possessed".

Who possesses you and your faculties?

δαιμονίζομαι - look it up.

Matt. 12:43-45, “Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest, and does not find it. 44 “Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. 45 “Then it goes, and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1Co 3:16, 17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that YOUR BODY is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


"Choice"

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 2011/1/25 0:40









 "urbanus"

you wrote:

Quote:
I won't continue this discussion, because it is ceasing to be a discussion.



and yet after that declaration, you proceeded to write another 4 posts on this thread.

so just let your yes be yes, and your no be no.

i've read your 16 posts since you descended upon this forum. normally i would take this up in a private message, but your tenor in post, tells me that is not wise.

and i say that because, in all of the now 16 posts you've wrote, i've never seen the Words, "love" and "mercy" in any of them.

the fruit of your keyboard sir, and all this emphasis on demons, and dark accusations leveled against what you see as followers of Jesus that don't measure up to your standards.

so i will make a predication, unless you learn to play nice with the "other kids", show some humility, grace, mercy and Jesus' love in you, you will not be long for this forum.

please forgive my sharp post, but i must be true to what i see and read. This forum is a precious cyber ministry in a sea of internet darkness, and as for me, i will not sit idly by and let any flesh, including my own, corrupt it.

so please beloved, pray before you post, as John wrote, God is love, he who lives in love, lives in God and God in Him.

neil

 2011/1/25 1:48





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