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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : John 13:27?

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Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


I would say that the Pharisees carnal motivation was to not lose their power and authority over the people. But an even deeper meaning, possibly even unknown to most of them was that they were helping to fulfill prophecy.

Caiaphas made the statement that showed the fulfillment of prophecy, but did he understand what he said? I do not know. From the passage it sounds like God gave him those words to speak, (verse 51 And this spake he not of himself). And when he said that one should die for the people, it could be he just thought the people of Israel. But we know that Jesus died for all people.

John 11:47-53 KJV
(47) Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
(48) If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

(49) And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
(50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

(51) And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
(52) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
(53) Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

John 12:42-43 KJV
(42) Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
(43) For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

 2011/1/29 8:42Profile

Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


I just love that verse and I guess I lean more the Caiaphas not really knowing what he was saying, to me it almost seems God uses those that set up themselves as His enemy to fulfill His plan and even cause them to say things they don't fully realize. I am very curious as to what the Pharisees thought of Pauls preaching when He made statements of Christ dying for all. And the fact Caiaphas likely heard Paul preach or was told what Paul was preaching by others and remembered what He said that fateful night. I suppose the plot thickens! :) The more I study this though the more I am amazed as how awesome God is which ultimately is our Goal to see Christ high and lifted up.

Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/29 8:53Profile

Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797

 Re: John 13:27?

I wrote this when the thread first began and others have now noted some of the things noted below.

Satan did not have to apply to God for Judas. Judas was not the servant that Job was. Satan did not learn or did not apply what he learned from his experience with God concerning Gods servant Job.

I think much can be learned in meditating on what is written about Judas, considering Judas as a fallen man like any man, as a man walking in the flesh as any one of us might find ourselves. Judas, like other disciples, thought that Jesus was going to come into His kingdom AT THAT TIME. Judas had seen, like the others, the power of God in Jesus, he knew that Jesus was without sin, he had even gone out with delegated power as the others did.

Judas, like other disciples, probably desired a high position. Scripture suggests it is the money that he perhaps thought went along with a high position that mattered to him. I doubt that he looked at the 30 pieces of silver as his consolation prize (“well at least I can get $ and the rulers will owe me). Although it might have been a thought he had (Jesus will make his move when they lay hold of him and if not …). Some Judas-like thoughts to bolster Judas-like actions might have been: “Can these men even kill God/the son of God? Will a father [God] allow his son [Jesus] to be killed? If Jesus does not step up, surly God will.”

Forcing Jesus to come into his kingdom, apart from the Word and will of God, was Satan-business at that time. Note the power that the Son of Man would have used, would have been the power of Satan over man and not the power of God (the gospel). In the flesh, followers force leaders, even manipulate them to do the “right thing” {what they them selves want/see], even the things written in scripture. The ground that Satan used, was the will of Judas.

Satan entered into Judas because Judas was not going to get the victory, Satan desired that. In a sense, what Satan did to God, Judas did to Jesus. Satan was at war with the Son of God who (“foolishly”) humbled himself. Satan thought he had the double advantage that God had come in the flesh AND was in the world with only men of flesh (like Judas). Judas was at war with Jesus the Son of man, thinking he knew THE WAY for such a man to come to power.

The Word of God endures forever. May I always wait on the Lord. [Isa 40]

 2011/1/29 13:55Profile

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