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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : John 13:27?

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StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

mguldner wrote..

Quote:
Looking at the account of Matthew at this very same scene we see Judas hypocritically ask "Master,Is it I?" in 26:25. Judas knew full well it was him that had planned on betraying Jesus... What gets me is Judas could very well have repented and had many opportunties to repent of this betrayal but his love for money and greed made over ran his heart.



I was listening to some very interesting Bible Studies by River of Life Church the other day. They were going over New Testament "themes" in the Old Testament (Something that TRULY interests me! To tie these together one can really see God's heart altogether.). The first one I listened to was about Cain and Abel. If you read the scripture closely, (vs 7) Cain had many warnings to repent, to turn from his sins. But instead he kept choosing a wayward life of pleasing self rather than God.

vs.6 The Lord even asked him, why are you so angry? I told you if you did well, you would be accepted.

instead of doing well he murdered his brother! vs. 8

The study goes into some greater detail too. what you can learn from just 10 verses! truly amazing.

Be Blessed in Christ,
Michelle


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Michelle

 2011/1/22 20:52Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

"In light of your comments though, I got to thinking about Judas. Do you think Satan applied for him as he had for Job, and God didn't put any restrictions on what he could do to him?"

I believe its a possibility however I believe Satan tempted more than just Judas but the difference is Judas gave into the lust of his flesh rejecting the Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus Himself for momentary gain.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/22 22:35Profile
fromtheold
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Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa

 Re:

The last part " and he repented himself" does this mean that Judas repented?


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esvl

 2011/1/23 2:38Profile









 Re: John 13:27?

Quote:
By the first century A.D., the Romans had named the region south of Judea, Idumea, the Latin form of Edom. In the preceding period, the Nabateans, a nomadic tribe from the east, had driven the Edomites (descendants of Esau) from their homeland on the east side of the Arabah (between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba). The Edomites fled westward and settled in the Negev.

Since Judas Iscariot (ish means "man of") apparently came from Kerioth, a city in this region, it is likely that he was a descendant of Esau.

This kind of opens up a little more about Judas. Could it be that he was jealous of Jesus?

Could it be possible that he read that if it's wasn't for Jacob, Esau could have had the birthright and therefore hated Christ for it?

Just some thoughts to think on.

 2011/1/25 18:06
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: White_Stone

Sorry White_stone, I had not had time to respond to this recently. I apologize for my lack of careful wording, I was dead tired (which is a poor excuse) when I wrote my post originally.

I was just making the observation that when the Devil took possession of Judas that by Christ telling him to do what he was going to do, he was addressing both of them. If two people are in one body, Christ's address goes to them both. I am only taking an inductive liberty to word it that way, it is not a translational issue...just my own observation.

The reason I quoted 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 was because that passage is speaking (I believe) not about the worldly rulers but the principalities and rulers of this world, of whom the Devil is the prince. The Devil possessed Judas and did not understand what he was doing. He was bent on destruction through Judas, and would not have done what he did had he realized -along with the rest of the rulers of the age- that the crucifixion of Christ was the very wisdom of God.

I hope that clears it up.


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/25 20:45Profile
Faith1
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Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re: John 13:27?

Matthew 26:20-25 KJV
(20) Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
(21) And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
(22) And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
(23) And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
(24) The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
(25) Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

I am not sure that Judas really understood where the end of his greed would take him. I have heard it preached that he expected Jesus to deliver himself out of the hands of the priests. It may be that Judas was shocked to see that Jesus allowed himself to be taken. And when Judas realized that Jesus would be killed he was sorry that he had delivered Him to the priests. But this did not change the consequences of Judas’ actions, nor relieve the guilt he felt.


Matthew 27:1-5 KJV
(1) When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
(2) And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
(3) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
(4) Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
(5) And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

 2011/1/25 21:38Profile
White_Stone
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Quote:
I was just making the observation . . . . not a translational issue...just my own observation. . . . I hope that clears it up.



Thank you, Areadymind,

The thread got moved and I almost missed your reply. It is appreciated,

white stone


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Janice

 2011/1/25 21:58Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

"I am not sure that Judas really understood where the end of his greed would take him. I have heard it preached that he expected Jesus to deliver himself out of the hands of the priests. It may be that Judas was shocked to see that Jesus allowed himself to be taken. And when Judas realized that Jesus would be killed he was sorry that he had delivered Him to the priests. But this did not change the consequences of Judas’ actions, nor relieve the guilt he felt."

Faith1 Thank you for this thought, I enjoyed it quite a lot actually. It would make sense that Judas would expect Christ to deliver Himself from the priest thus having "gain" with no "pain" I think Judas would be an interesting character to interview if that were even possible.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/26 1:06Profile
thomasm
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Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

yes, his deception, might have been, to force Jesus into setting up His rule now, because they believed the Messiah would have a kingdom on earth like David, and over throw the Roman rule.

Just some thoughts.

Love in Christ tom


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Tom weighill

 2011/1/29 6:47Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

May I ask you some questions to help clarify? :) I really enjoy other input on these kind of things. Helps me grow and learn more about Christ Jesus.

From your statement would you say the Pharisees and Council actually accepted Christ to be the Messiah but rejected Him for their worldly religion and gain? That perhaps their plot was to call Christ bluff so to speak? Like "If He is the Messiah when presented with death He will have to save Himself but if not we have killed another looney" And so Judas believed to be helping Christ set up His kingdom by betraying Him? :) Sorry just some expansion of what you wrote in hopes to go deeper.


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/29 6:55Profile





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