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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : John 13:27?

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mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 John 13:27?

Could someone please help me try and understand this verse? I believe I understand it as the moment the Lord gave Judas over to his sin as we read in Romans 1:28? Does this seem accurate? Any reply would be appreciated Please and THANK YOU!

God Bless,
Matthew


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/22 1:43Profile
Areadymind
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Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: John 13:27?

The devil took possession of Judas and Jesus addressed 'them' and told them to do what they intended.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/22 1:51Profile
White_Stone
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

What translations are you both reading? I do not see that wording in my KJV. Nor in the Matthew Henry Commentary. It may be helpful if I read some other translations.

Matthew Henry does point out that the devil was already in Judas but now 'returned with 7 more spirits.' Also, that he entered him to to throw him into the fire or run him down the hill to the sea, which would have been far better for him than the contempt he received for Jesus. (Paraphrasing his work here.)

Kind regards,
white stone


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Janice

 2011/1/22 9:54Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: White Stone

And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (John 13:27 KJV)

Sorry White Stone, I read the King James version. Gr. Satanas (accuser) entered (as in how we would go through a doorway) into Judas.


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/22 10:03Profile









 Re: John 13:27?


Hi Matthew,

I had a post, but somehow when I hit submit, it did not load.

Now, I don't have time to write it beautifully, and you will have to do your own foot slog.

If you search for 'Satan', you will find no evidence that he is plural. Remember Job 1 also, and Peter's roaring lion. See Psa 22. Satan doesn't just represent the mind of flesh, he IS the mind of flesh. John 8:44.

Look also at Judas in John 12, concerned more for the money than the worship of God. Idolatry (self worship) is the issue in Rom 1. Compare with first commandment.

Note also, that Rom 2:4 is where Paul is going in Rom 1.

John 10:1. John's verses about antiChrist. John 17:12 and John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Psalms 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up [his] heel against me. {mine...: Heb. the man of my peace} {lifted...: Heb. magnified}

Nevertheless, God has given us an ability to hunger afer righteousness and the ability to know when we have met with Him or not.

Mark 5:6. Legion, though full of demons 'ran and worshipped' Jesus as soon as he saw him. This brings in James 1 on temptation - a man being enticed with the sin within him. Now this is relevant to Rom 1, but, there are many other reasons a person may need to be delivered from other spirits, not necessarily their own personal choice to sin. Be gentle with them.

1 Cor 14:32 lines up with James 1. We have power over our actions. The question is whether we will line ourselves up with God's desires, or, the temptation to follow the desires of the flesh.

Look also at the return of the seventy. Jesus had already got victory over Satan spiritually. He had been the chief cherubim, beautiful, shining in the presence of God's glory - until he wanted others to glorify him instead. See Christ's temptations.

Satan's personal agenda is to take the place of the Son of God as the heir of all things. Note in the tempations he has taken the earth from Adam, and now he offers it back to Christ, whereas Christ has a larger agenda - to reclaim the whole of creation back from the effects of the fall.


I don't think seven other spirits more wicked apply until a man who has been delivered from a spirit, continues in sin. Jesus said to several: Go and sin no more.

 2011/1/22 10:31
White_Stone
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Hello Areadymind,

Your original post

Quote:
The devil took possession of Judas and Jesus addressed 'them' and told them to do what they intended. 1 Corinthians 2:6-8



Going to 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 gives me no clue to the quote you gave. I am seeking to learn where you got the
Quote:
'them'

part. Please help be to understand.

Also,
Quote:
Gr. Satanas (accuser) entered (as in how we would go through a doorway) into Judas.

I, too read the KJV but do not have what you have quoted. Perhaps, yours has something mine does not, such as in learning helps? I would like to know so I can search for one like that, too.

Kind regards, I need all the help understanding possible, I am not trying to nit pick.
white stone


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Janice

 2011/1/22 13:34Profile
fromtheold
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Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa

 Re:

I must seriously be missing something. I cant figure out what the question is.


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esvl

 2011/1/22 14:03Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

You are not alone. I just reread the original post and noticed the reference to Romans 1:28. Upon reading that I do not really see the connection to Judas at the Last Supper.

Or, was it my questions you do not understand? I tried to be clear but my wording may be flaky.

white stone


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Janice

 2011/1/22 14:21Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

"You are not alone. I just reread the original post and noticed the reference to Romans 1:28. Upon reading that I do not really see the connection to Judas at the Last Supper."

Perhaps I can make myself more clear by trying to help you understand my question :)

Looking at the account of Matthew at this very same scene we see Judas hypocritically ask "Master,Is it I?" in 26:25. Judas knew full well it was him that had planned on betraying Jesus... What gets me is Judas could very well have repented and had many opportunties to repent of this betrayal but his love for money and greed made over ran his heart.

We learn from scripture if we harden our hearts to the whispers of the Holy Spirit and continue to sin knowing full well its wrong the Lord will hand us over to our depraved mind, such as done in Romans 1:28 Judas knew God and His power but ultimately denied God for self gain. That is what I am talking about when I ask the question in the OP. Hope that clears it up for you :)


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Matthew Guldner

 2011/1/22 19:11Profile









 Re: John 13:27?


Yes Judas did know, and he didn't know how he would feel afterwards.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that]. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. 7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.



The hypocrisy of the priests never fails to impress me.



In light of your comments though, I got to thinking about Judas. Do you think Satan applied for him as he had for Job, and God didn't put any restrictions on what he could do to him?

 2011/1/22 20:50





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