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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Biblical Repentance

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thomasm
Member



Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Hi Oracio

I never said that repentance shouldn't be preached, I just believe like "Jesus is God"stated that every person is different, we have let the HOLY SPIRIT lead us in our reaching the lost.Luke 5:1-10 Jesus never told Peter to repent, But he declared" Go away from me lord I am a sinful man." Because he was astonished by their catch of fish.
I could go on about Matthew, the house of Cornellius,Saul's conversion, All of these men repented, but as far as I can see, it wasn't preached to them, they had a demonstration of the Power of God. Yet on the Day of pentecost Peter preached "Repent and be baptised"

I still believe repentance is the turning away from sin to God in your heart, but without a change on the outside I would question the inner repentance.

Love in CHRIST tom


_________________
Tom weighill

 2011/1/23 0:57Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2022
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Biblical Repentance

thomasm wrote:

Quote:
Who told the prodigal son to forsake the pig sty, who told him to leave the pig sty and go home? No one, without a change of mind there is no lasting change in lifestyle.


The simplest answer to that question of course is God. Paul declared to the Athenian pagans that "God commands all men everywhere to repent"(Acts 17:30), and he went on to warn them of the coming Day of Judgment. God uses us as His mouthpieces to preach repentance and faith in Christ.

As to the need for a change of mind, Ray Comfort does not deny that need, he only asserts that it must be accompanied with an outward change or else it is false. Both are to go together and be preached. The danger that Ray confronts is the danger of only mentioning a change of mind, which is unbiblical and has led to multitudes being deceived in a false assurance.
Quote:
I'm sorry but I believe in preaching John 3:16,17 I won't condemn a condemned man, I'll show Him the Love of the Father, which produces true repentance, anything else causes a change for fear of judgement that will not last.


If we only preach that part of the Gospel it is not the full Gospel and it is contrary to what Christ Himself has commanded us to preach. His first message was "Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.(Matt.4:17)" In His glorified state He told the disciples that "repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."(Lk.24:47)

In general, it seems evident in Scripture that repentance should always be included in a Gospel message to the lost, especially in an open air or public setting.

That said, when speaking to individuals, I would agree with some that our main emphasis and tone can vary depending on the individual's attitude toward God and sin. It seems that Christ always spoke more sternly to those He perceived were the proudest at heart. For example, to the rich young man he did not even preach the good news, but only the Law of God which he had violated(Matt.19:16-26).

Many preachers have watered down or completely ignored the clear warnings of Scripture, particularly those of Christ and the apostles. They set the example for us of preaching repentance, Judgment, and hell as well as the good news of the cross and resurrection. I want to be safe and follow their example in dealing with lost souls. I want to be faithful in declaring the whole counsel of God as Paul did, proclaiming repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:20-21;26).

Jesus-is-God wrote:
Quote:
The 'man' Christ Jesus, though being Creator GOD, came in human flesh to be our only Example of how to walk the walk. He emptied Himself and became dependent on the Father by The Holy Spirit. THAT was our Example. The problem I see with this discussion, is that we're not seeing Jesus' method of 'evangelism'. How did He treat the "sinners"? Study Him! He walked in The Spirit and when doing one-on-one, the Spirit would give Him insight into what this person He was speaking to had going on in their life. When speaking to the crowds, He gave them the Sermon on the Mount.When speaking to the Pharisees, He railed at them, for they should have known better. When we come up with a "one size fits all" form of evangelism, we negate the indwelling Holy Spirit's job of following Christ's pattern.


I agree with your assesment there brother, to a certain extent. The concern I see is in stating that Christ is thee only example in Scripture we should look at and follow. We also must take into account that the apostles example and doctrine is much profitable for us to learn from, for they too were moved by the Spirit as our Lord was, and their word is also Christ's word.
The whole point of Ray Comfort's article has to do with defining biblical repentance. Since repentance is a crucial part of the Gospel, it is important for us to understand what it means so that we can explain it properly to the lost when we are led by the Spirit to do so.
Quote:
I, just for one, only needed to hear the message that I could be forgiven. Like the woman at the well, I just needed Him to reveal to me that He was Messiah and what His Cross accomplished for me. I did not need condemnation, because I knew instinctively that I was a wretch. If we would only learn that without Him we can do NOTHING -Evangelism included - we have done more harm to His Cause than any good. I don't have time to give testimony after testimony of what GOD has done through yielded vessels, that first, "listened to Him" before approaching an individual. Stories like, GOD telling the Christian the person's life story before they start out to talk to that unsaved person and then giving the words to say that hit right at the target of that unsaved person's life - without condemnation but with an offer for a New Life in Christ and Eternal Life to follow.


I do not deny or discount your testimony brother. However, I would ask you how you knew that you were a wretch? Was it not that the Spirit of God was convicting you of your sin and your need for repentance?

Because God is sovereign, He can and does sometimes save us without anyone verbally preaching the Gospel to us. It might be through us reading a tract, a Scripture, etc. Just because God sometimes uses these means does not negate the need for us to verbally preach repentance and faith to all those that are lost.

I agree that God may at times give us special insight into a person's heart or situation, but that is not the norm and we should not depend on those kinds of special revelations in declaring the Gospel. Regarless of whether or not we receive special revelation about a lost person we are commanded to preach to them if given the opportunity. If we rely on special revelations we will miss out on many opportunities God may give us to share the Gospel with someone. But yes, we should try to be sensitive to the Spirit's guidance, there should be a balance here.

I can testify to many coming to know the Lord through witnessing encounters, because someone was faithful to declare repentance and faith in Christ, and this without receiving a special revelation from God. They simply endeavored to be faithful to the clear commands of Scripture.

You mentioned the woman at the well as an example of a soft message from Christ. Yet we see that Christ called her out regarding her adulterous lifestyle before He told her He was the Messiah. We would do well in following in His footsteps and reasoning with lost people regarding their sins before God as we share the Gospel with them. We see Christ doing this plenty of times, yet we hardly hear that kind of reasoning or preaching from pulpits or evangelists today?
Quote:
The problem with "evangelism" is that we don't Trust GOD that He will speak words of wisdom or knowledge to us and give us the exact words for each individual. We don't "study" how HE did it while here. We don't believe that He will show us the true state of each individual before we open our mouths. We just hammer them right off without knowing them or what type lives they've suffered through.


Again, with all due respect brother, it is dangerous and spiritually unhealthy for us to rely on that kind of "special revelation" when it comes to faithfully preaching the Gospel.
thomasm wrote:
Quote:
I never said that repentance shouldn't be preached, I just believe like "Jesus is God"stated that every person is different, we have let the HOLY SPIRIT lead us in our reaching the lost.Luke 5:1-10 Jesus never told Peter to repent, But he declared" Go away from me lord I am a sinful man." Because he was astonished by their catch of fish. I could go on about Matthew, the house of Cornellius,Saul's conversion, All of these men repented, but as far as I can see, it wasn't preached to them, they had a demonstration of the Power of God. Yet on the Day of pentecost Peter preached "Repent and be baptised"


With regard to Peter and the other apostles, it seems evident that they already knew who Christ was based on what He preached and did. They had already heard him preach repentance and the kingdom in the open air and heard about or seen His miracles.

Regarding Cornelius, we read that Peter preached Christ as the One "appointed by God to judge the living and the dead"(Acts10:42). In preaching the coming Judgment, we warn people about it and thereby imply the need for repentance before that Judgment comes upon them. Cornelius did not need much preaching on repentance because he was already humbled before God and sincerely seeking Him.

As to Saul's conversion, Christ also warned Him of his serious sin of persecuting His followers. In essence He told him, "in the end you cannot and will not win if you continue in your rebellion against Me." And again, we would do well in following in Christ's footsteps.


_________________
Oracio

 2011/1/24 14:57Profile
thomasm
Member



Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

"With regard to Peter and the other apostles, it seems evident that they already knew who Christ was based on what He preached and did. They had already heard him preach repentance and the kingdom in the open air and heard about or seen His miracles.

Regarding Cornelius, we read that Peter preached Christ as the One "appointed by God to judge the living and the dead"(Acts10:42). In preaching the coming Judgment, we warn people about it and thereby imply the need for repentance before that Judgment comes upon them. Cornelius did not need much preaching on repentance because he was already humbled before God and sincerely seeking Him.

As to Saul's conversion, Christ also warned Him of his serious sin of persecuting His followers. In essence He told him, "in the end you cannot and will not win if you continue in your rebellion against Me." And again, we would do well in following in Christ's footsteps. "
---------------------------------------------------------------
edit I added quote mark and dotted line to separate thoughts

I guess if you feel,that you need to make assumptions, about the scriptures and stretch them, to prove your point, there is no point, in my continuing, in this conversation,

LOVE in CHRIST tom


_________________
Tom weighill

 2011/1/29 6:14Profile
Faith1
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re: Biblical Repentance

Quote:
All I can say is, Study Jesus!



Here are some Bible texts showing how Jesus used the word repent or repentance.

Repentance appears to be the beginning of the gospel message. He directly preached repentance, linked it to the kingdom of God and the gospel.

Matthew 4:17 KJV
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:14-15 KJV
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mark 2:17 KJV
(17) When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 24:45-47 KJV
(45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Jesus sent his disciples to also preach repentance.

Mark 6:11-12 KJV
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. And they went out, and preached that men should repent.


Jesus warned that all need repentance.

Luke 13:2-5 KJV
(2) And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
(3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(4) Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
(5) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

We are also counseled to rebuke our brethren if they trespass against us, and if they repent to forgive them as God has forgiven us.

Luke 17:3-4 KJV
(3) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
(4) And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
(14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
(15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

God wants all people to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 KJV
(9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I personally want to hear the message of repentance, it shows me my need of Christ. I am not interested in smooth words.


Isaiah 30:9-10 KJV
(9) That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
(10) Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:


 2011/1/29 11:19Profile
Faith1
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re:

Repent - a definition from the Strong's Concordance

G3340
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.


G3539
noieō
noy-eh'-o
From G3563; to exercise the mind (observe), that is, (figuratively) to comprehend, heed: - consider, perceive, think, understand.


So, could we say that repentance is:
to understand, comprehend and perceive sin and
to reconsider our actions and
to feel compelled to turn away from sin because we now think differently
because we have heard Jesus

 2011/1/29 11:37Profile









 Re:

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it 'lawfully';
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


Since you pulled my quote and some Scriptures but not the context of my post - I'll have to explain again.

We were discussing "methods of evangelism".

Jesus did not use the same 'technique' with every person He came in contact with - which I explained within my post.

I never denied that repentence is necessary for salvation.

We were discussing "methods" versus "walking in The Spirit" in the course of our evangelism.

Jesus saw through, with words of knowledge used, with each individual that He spoke to on a one-to-one basis and with the crowds and with the pharisees - He walked in wisdom from above and did not give the same message in every case because of His walking in The Spirit and getting His wisdom from Above - as we are commanded to.

Who gives us the power and inner insight to "repent" - if "repent" means to "turn from your wicked ways"?

Can all men see their wickedness apart from The Spirit of GOD?

Do all unsaved humans feel "conviction" apart from The Spirit of GOD?

Only The Spirit knows what is in the heart of each man. So the Christian who is walking in The Spirit may be given a different word to give each individual that they "witness" to.

Some know that they are wretches and need only to be told of Christ's forgiveness and how to obtain it and told to "go and sin no more."

Others need to be hit hard with the WORD of GOD to reprove them of their rebellion against it/Him.

We are told to walk as He did - by the leading of His Spirit, and in doing so - He will bring those who are willing to do His will to repentence, yes, for sure.

We don't preach "methods" but a living walk inspired by the leading of His Spirit. The same Spirit which He operated through and not a one size fits all method of reaching individuals.

All else is not using The WORD of GOD "lawfully". The Law of the Spirit brings Life - any other brings death - both to our own walks and to our witness to those who have never known Him.

For He said: "Without Me, you can do Nothing!"

Not smoooth words at all. It hurts our desire for glory, the using of our flesh to serve Him, by doing it by methods and limiting His Spirit in the work of conviction that leads to repentence in unbelievers.

Something that surely needs to be repented of. Not walking in dependence on His Spirit - knowing that without Him - we can do Nothing. Amen.

 2011/1/29 11:54
Faith1
Member



Joined: 2011/1/23
Posts: 18


 Re:

I think you misunderstood the meaning of my post.

I only quoted your sentence to "Study Jesus" because I agreed with it and was motivated by it to search for scriptures were Jesus called people to repentance. I then shared those scriptures because I received a blessing from them.

Also, my parting statement and Bible refernce was only an expression of my feelings for a desire to know and hear the truth. I hope you did not think I was directing it at you.

I also believe that it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict people of sin and that on a one to one basis we should be lead by the Holy Spirit in any witnessing we do.


For me scripture always has the last word on any topic. I perfer to answer questions with a 'thus saith the Lord" by quoting Bible passages. It is God's word that has the power, of myself I can do nothing.

 2011/1/29 12:26Profile









 Re:


I understand, no problem at all - but the context of my post, where you had taken that short quote from, I needed to get it back on the topic that that quote was pointing back To. Walking as He did.

Thanks!

 2011/1/29 12:36





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