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PosterThread
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

Appolus,
When did these people first believe? Before Pentecost. Look at the context. Namely, they speak about John's baptism.

And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism." And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(Acts 19:3-5)

 2011/1/20 18:34Profile









 Re:

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

A follow up from what Frank said about being brethren before one receives the Holy Spirit is right here in this verse.

I know there is a teaching out there that when when one repents and receives Christ's message of salvation that one receives the Holy Spirit instantaneously, here we have Jesus telling His disciples that God will give them the Holy Ghost to anyone that asks the Father in His name.

This is what it means to hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled, Paul makes that very clear regarding the Holy Spirit and being filled with righteousness.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Now just because we agree with the speaking in other tongues does not mean that we are in agreement with the "crazies" that are going about with their foolish ways and taking that which is supposed to be sacred and making it profane.

The infilling [the promise] Holy Spirit was the "new thing" that God was going to do in their midst back in the day.

Paul even wanted to know if the certain brethren coming out of Ephesus had received the Holy Ghost, that is how important it was to the Apostle that they had a correction in their theology. Today, if we heard Paul speak those words, we'd open up a debate room, have a seminar and try to reason away this command, "Be filled with the Spirit".

 2011/1/20 18:38









 Re:

Hi untobabes,

The Scriptures say this .........

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

You dont have to go to a pentecostal church brother, just a church that believes in what we used to call " The full Gospel." It must be very difficult to believe as you do when your fellowship is with cessasionists? My own experience was that I read the Scriptures ( did not know any Scriptures prior to coming to Christ 20 years ago) believed what i read, went forward at a service and asked a minister to lay hands on me that I may receive what I had read about in the Scriptures. Some time shortly after that, the Holy Spirit came upon me and it changed my walk. Prior to that I had been baprized in water because I read it in the Scriptures, much to my grandmothers horror as I had been born and raised a Roman Catholic and she considered this a renunciation of my infant baptism and my Catholicism, which it was. I think she may have thought I was going through a phase or had been taken up by a cult ( very few born-again Christians in Scotland) ..........brother Frank

 2011/1/20 18:42









 Re:

Hi renouncer, you write this .....

"When did these people first believe? Before Pentecost. Look at the context. Namely, they speak about John's baptism."

Is that not what I wrote brother and give the Scripture?
And the answer of course is that when they heard what Paul said ......

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
You just cannot ignore verse 6 brother.........brother Frank


 2011/1/20 18:48









 Re:

"Now just because we agree with the speaking in other tongues does not mean that we are in agreement with the "crazies" that are going about with their foolish ways and taking that which is supposed to be sacred and making it profane."

Amen brother. I met some Polish brothers who came all the way from Poland to the Greenock conference a few years ago. They called themselves " Classic Pentecostals." :) Made me smile, I liked it. This was their way of serparting themselves from much of the maddness that passed for " pentecostalism," or " charismatics." ........brother Frank

 2011/1/20 18:52









 Re:

Quote:
I have a question. Do you have to go to a pentecostal church. All the people I fellowship with are cessasionists and I feel alone in this. I prayed for the Holy Spirit many times but have not received Him. As far as I know my motives are right. What is lacking?

Determination!

Let your asking be fierce and don't be afraid to tear the gates of heaven off their hinges and pushing your way to the throne room of grace.

Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

The "eth" on the end of the word Ask is simply saying, "keep asking". The "eth" is a verb, keep asking, keep seeking and keep knocking.

Jesus spoke of the woman and the unjust judge.

She kept bugging him every single day until the only way to get rid of her was to agree with her.

Now this was an unjust judge. God is a just judge therefore He will fill your request speedily.

Never believe the words of the devil while seeking earnestly, he will do everything that he can to discourage you. Oh the lies. Set your mind as flint and keep asking every morning, afternoon and night. And as you keep on, the hunger develops, it stirs up in you, it begins to burn. You will not settle for anything but your request being fulfilled in you. Nothing else matters but being filled with the Spirit.

You don't have to be around Pentecostals, but it wouldn't hurt. It's encouraging to be around those that are in agreement with being filled. But not all Pentecostal Churches are the same, so I would ask the Lord to help you out with choosing the right one and go from there. If you feel to stay put, then stay put.

 2011/1/20 18:57
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1032
Oregon

 Re:

Thank you Frank, and approved. I will continue to seek the Lord both before and after the Holy Spirit baptism, till I leave this earth. So help me God.


_________________
Fifi

 2011/1/20 19:15Profile









 Re:

"I will continue to seek the Lord both before and after the Holy Spirit baptism, till I leave this earth. So help me God."

Amen and amen. Every day brother, every day........brother Frank

 2011/1/20 19:57
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 483


 Re:

Appolus,
Of course, you must look at the whole context. You must also look at the context theologically. What is going on in the history of God's dispensation of his grace?

In the book of Acts, we witness the beginning of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (i.e., baptism of the Holy Spirit), to all who believe. That is why those who had received John's baptism were now receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, thence forth, there was no more of "John's baptism", or even the baptism of repentance in Jesus' name apart from the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. Thence forth, those who believed were to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. There is a difference between the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and the command to be "filled with the Spirit". That is why Paul emphasizes the importance of being baptized with the Holy Spirit at the beginning of this dispensation, whereas he later expresses that by the Spirit we were ALL BAPTIZED (1Corinthians 12:13) into one body, that is, the body of Christ. Furthermore, the later command to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18) is in the light of the dispensation of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We must understand the theological context, or else we can make dangerous mistakes, which stem from erroneous assumptions. In fact, if we seek a second experience apart from Jesus Christ, we are treading dangerous waters. This may lead us to look down on other believers, thinking that we are better and more righteous because we have attained a higher level of spirituality. This may lead us to downplay the work of Christ and His sufficiency. This may lead us to seek excitement rather than humbled obedience. This may lead us to seek something else, thinking that Christ is not enough.

As such, we must carefully examine the implications of our doctrines, because they may lead us where we don't expect or even desire to go.

 2011/1/20 20:50Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Appolos wrote; Quote

"Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

This is obviously prior to Pentecost. Jesus then says......

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And the purpose of this pentecost? This baptism?........"



Prior to Pentecost, obviously a continued promise that the Holy Spirit would come as the Comforter.

The purpose of their Pentecost in the upper room, to receive the promise and power. Most of all the Spirit of Christ in them could not come back until He had ascended to the Father and the Spirit of Christ be birthed in them also at Pentecost.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you (((((another Comforter,))))) that he may abide with you for ever;

The "another Comforter", is not Christ.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Jesus Christ is our Comforter, our number One, our Life.

John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

"I in you", Do we see Him, has He come in the flesh of men, the Spirit of Christ in you the hope of Glory. If not we are none of His.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jesus is Life, the Holy Spirit is the power of that life and Parakleet, of our soul/minds to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ.

This is where the Holy Spirit works, "our minds". The Holy Spirit also works the gifts of the Gifted One, Jesus Christ, as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:3-7 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same ((((Spirit.)))) And there are differences of administrations, but the same ((((Lord.)))) And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Corinthians 12:11-13 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The One Spirit giving Life in Christ, Spirit, The One Spirit giving understanding to our Soul/mind. Separate only in Their works.

Life=Spirit of Christ, Understanding that Life=Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit did not shed His Blood. Only Christ hang on the Cross, forsaken of all.

Life in Christ, Life in the Spirit; Amen

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2011/1/20 21:13Profile





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