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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is there really Eternal Hell Fire

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DesertRose
Member



Joined: 2007/8/8
Posts: 123
Boston.MA

 Re: Is there really Eternal Hell Fire

The following is from 9 marks EJournal:Pastoral Perspectives on "Hell: Remembering the Awful Reality"

"Wisdom so often in life prescribes moderation. It’s wise to eat with moderation, to speak with moderation, to feel with moderation, some would even say to believe with moderation.

But there’s absolutely nothing moderate about the doctrine of hell. It’s extreme in every way. It’s an extreme idea for the mind. It’s an extreme confrontation for the heart. And it blows against all the rules of social etiquette.

Embracing the reality of hell means setting aside moderation. It means admitting that our sin is dark and heinous to the point of eternal damnation; that the white light of God’s character and glory justly destroys those who have fallen short of his glory; and that that our non-Christians friends have nothing greater to fear. That’s tough to do when you have moderate views of your sin, your friend’s sin, and of God’s glory.
Embracing the reality of hell also means going against the fallen cultural structures and belief systems of this world, all of which conspire together with our own hearts to repeat the serpent’s promise of a moderate outcome, “You will surely not die.”

As hard as it is to stare at the doctrine of hell, surely it must be salubrious to our faith to do so from time to time. It forces us to once again reckon with who God is and who we are. We hope this issue of the 9Marks eJournal will help all of us to do just that."


http://www.9marks.org/ejournal/hell-remembering-awful-reality

 2011/1/12 16:51Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

I usually avoid engaging in these kinds of topics on this forum, as I do not really have time to get involved in long winded threads, but I am going to make a bold and marginalizing statement.

If you extract the eternality of hell fire as a doctrine from scripture, the entire Bible collapses in on itself. The gospel message would have no meaning. I will suggest that many people today question the doctrine of eternal hell because they have hardly apprehended the message of the cross.


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/1/12 17:09Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Areadymind wrote

Quote:
If you extract the eternality of hell fire as a doctrine from scripture, the entire Bible collapses in on itself. The gospel message would have no meaning. I will suggest that many people today question the doctrine of eternal hell because they have hardly apprehended the message of the cross.



Amen. Unconverted sinners wish and hope with every fiber of their being that they will merely be annihalated at last or finally reconciled after some time in hell torments. If any of those two doctrines were true they would be able to say with all their heart, "let us eat, drink and be merry, for tommorow we die."

Those who claim to know God but object to the reality of an eternal hell have not had enough of a glimpse into the holiness of God. If they did get such a glimpse they would make no such objections. Because He is infinitely holy it makes sense that the punishment for waging war against Him would be of infinite measure.


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Oracio

 2011/1/12 18:26Profile
boG
Member



Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV

 Re: Is there really Eternal Hell Fire

Kwamenat, your question of the doctrine of an eternal hell is a fair question. The book you have linked by some person, Joe Crews, from helltruth.com has some errors in it.

I do not intend to make a full rebuttal but I will make a quick remark. The Bible promises everlasting torment, suffering, and punishment.

Matthew 25:46. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

The author of this book, Hell-Fire, makes a silly mistake on this point. He assumes that because "eternal life" is not promised to the damned that therefore this equates to "eternal death." Now, eternal death is an expression never used in the Bible; the very idea is non-existent. We do hear about "spiritual death" but that is evidently not Annihilationism.

Very simply, eternal life is not used in the Scriptures primarily as a quantitative expression of life, but as a qualitative expression. Eternal life is referring to the abundant life of joy and peace, etc., in Christ. Spiritual death, or eternal punishment, is the deficient life of those who are by nature enemies of God.

Moreover, I do not consider "hell-fire" to be a literal fire. I perceive hell-fire to be a profound description of how sinners experience the overwhelming Holiness of the Presence of God. (Deuteronomy 4:24.)

Nahum 1:6. "Who can stand before His indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of His anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him."

Isaiah 33:14. "The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Some of the best teaching which I personally enjoy on hell are by a gentleman, R. A. Finlayson, who says,

"Hell is eternity in the presence of God without a mediator. Heaven is eternity in the presence of God, with a mediator."

And,

"Hell is an encounter with the character and will of God. God's nature is holy, and His character is unsullied righteousness. For the unholy to mix with holiness is Hell."

I would recommend reading the following two articles:
The Holiness of God by R. A. Finlayson
The Last Things [Judgement] by R. A. Finlayson


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Jordan

 2011/1/12 18:48Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2717
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Ya but are they not literally burning right now as we speak? I have located this link..It is more sound to me. I will read the suggested thread as well. My objective for this post is to come to the knowledge of truth from the word and not man's ideologies. I am not just posting things for the sake of posting. Please be sure of that.



The link that you have "located" is a Seventh Day Adventist site. One of the many "stealth" sites that they run in which they pose like an ordinary Evangelical site and do not give their true church association. It is a deceptive method of recruiting folks into the SDA.

Clearly kwamenat is here to promota SDA agenda with this post and his post on the sabbath day and I highly doubt he is honestly seeking answers to his questions. Beware false teaching.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2011/1/12 19:01Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Quote:
eternal life is not used in the Scriptures primarily as a quantitative expression of life, but as a qualitative expression.




If the word " eternal " does not suggest quantity, I don't know what would.


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Fifi

 2011/1/12 19:10Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Actually If you would have asked me my denomination, I would have told you. Refer to all of my post, it is filled with scripture. I didn't know that I am not allowed to participate in a Christian forum because of the church i go to. By the way i have been coming to this website for a few years now listening to sermons.. i just thought i would engage in some conversations to see the view of others on some issues. If i was attached to my denomination alone i would not be listening to all these preachers on here.

Be careful when you make statements, you do not know the heart of man!

 2011/1/12 19:25Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re:

Hi kwamenat...

I think that I am more interested in just WHY you asked the questions in these two threads. Did you REALLY want to know the answers...or was there an ulterior motive to spread your own views?

Of course, we don't know your heart. However, this is not a Seventh Day Adventist website. The purpose of this website is to provoke people to seek God and pray for genuine Biblical revival.

If you have sincere questions, we will definitely do our best to answer them. However, I suppose that you can understand the trepidation when it comes to people who might come in with an agenda or desire to proclaim their view as undeniable truth that would be seen by those who sincerely seek God (via His Word) in truth.

The fact is that many people are sincere and prayerfully read the Word of God and have arrived to views that are different than the two that you have brought up here.


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Christopher

 2011/1/12 20:05Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

I find this amazing! You find a link i posted from an Adventist organization site and all of a certain I have a hidden agenda. Actually some of the folks on here pointed me back to other threads in the forum that share the same concerns. Please,let's put the preconceived ideas aside!

Like I said, i have been visiting this site for some time to listen to sermons. I just recently noticed that you guys had a forum to discuss Biblical issues. I love whatever keeps me in the Word because it ultimately will bring us closer to God. As a matter fact I ask the same questions i do here with people in my denomination to see if they really can give Biblical text for what they believe in.

Its amazing how you get excited because you have found a place where you can discuss the word of God instead of spend your time on other unprofitable sites like facebook...only to be rejected by fellow Christians.

Matthew 7:1

in Christ,
Kwame

 2011/1/13 0:27Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

boG,

Thanks for your feedback but I am a little puzzled..

Quote:
Moreover, I do not consider "hell-fire" to be a literal fire. I perceive hell-fire to be a profound description of how sinners experience the overwhelming Holiness of the Presence of God. (Deuteronomy 4:24.)



What do you mean by a profound description?

 2011/1/13 0:35Profile





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