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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "Was it not thy own?"

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7446
Mississippi

 "Was it not thy own?"

Occasionally there is a Biblical phrase that stays with you, challenging you, teaching you. You ponder it and at some point some things start making sense that heretofore was confusing.

Acts 5:4 (NASB) is such a verse: "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control?"

Ownership. It was yours. You could do with it as you pleased. It was yours. Yours. Mine. You could keep it or give it away. It is your call. The individual can make that decision.

Enter Matthew 20:1-16 (NASB):

1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

2“When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3“And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place;

4and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went.

5“Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing.

6“And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’

7“They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’

8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’

9“When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius.

10“When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.

11“When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner,

12saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’

13“But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?

14‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.

15‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’

16“So the last shall be first, and the first last.”

From an employee's point this makes no sense. It is NOT fair! You worked hard ALL day in the heat and sun and you get paid no more then the one who works one hour! Not fair! Got to form a union to get some justice here!

But there is that one telltale point in v. 15: ‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’ The owner can do as he pleases with what he owns.

Oh.

Ananias and Sapphira were not obligated to share with the church any of their money. It was a personal decision to do so. The employer had the right to determine the wage paid - he was kind enough to make this agreement before the men were hired. The employer honored his part but the employees were wanting to renege for what they deemed as unfair. It may have been, but they agreed and the employer had the right to make agreements as he wills.

Practical applications: People own. They can do with it whatever they choose. Their possession were given to them by God. The dispersal of them is between them and God. To God we are accountable. We have no right to envy what is not ours. It belongs to another.

Ananias & Sapphira's sin was they lied. Sapphira did not have to agree with her husband - Peter gave her the option to be honest, but she lied also and suffered the consequences. Important lesson...

"Was it not thy own?"


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/1/9 18:22Profile









 Re: "Was it not thy own?"

That is very interesting GR, but you know what I often wonder is how did Ananias lie to the Holy Ghost?

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

It doesn't even say, "Why did you lie to the Church?" which would fit quite nicely there because that is where the money was going to. But he says, the Holy Ghost instead.

Hmmm

 2011/1/9 18:43
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

Quote:
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?



I'd also like to understand why Peter indicts Ananias for 'Satan filling thine heart to lie'? Obviously Ananias is responsible and it's his sin, but the wording resembles the Eden conversations, but from the other side.

It's like a NT follow up on how God feels about passing the buck to Satan.

 2011/1/9 19:39Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

It's fascinating that an entire group/sect like the Hutterites could be founded on a wrong interpretation of this passage.

 2011/1/9 19:48Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7446
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
It's fascinating that an entire group/sect like the Hutterites could be founded on a wrong interpretation of this passage.



How do they interpret this scripture?

I know there are more applications for this scripture but I do not see having all things in common is among them. What say?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/1/9 21:22Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7446
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
It doesn't even say, "Why did you lie to the Church?" which would fit quite nicely there because that is where the money was going to. But he says, the Holy Ghost instead.



Another one of those perplexing statements that invites pondering...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/1/9 21:26Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7446
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
It doesn't even say, "Why did you lie to the Church?" which would fit quite nicely there because that is where the money was going to. But he says, the Holy Ghost instead.



I have been thinking a lot about this question since I
read this post...After I got to thinking and thought some more, the answer was so simple I thought why did it take me so long? Still, this exercises will have its multiple benefits - like thinking some more about it because it is dreadfully serious: lying to the Holy Spirit brought on these people's death!

The conclusion I came up with is when the Holy Spirit convicts us and we argue against him, giving Him all the 'reasons' why one should not do His bidding. In doing so we may lie.

Oh, OH.

Simple. Think I will leave it at that.

What do the others think?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/1/10 10:37Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Quote:
The conclusion I came up with is when the Holy Spirit convicts us and we argue against him, giving Him all the 'reasons' why one should not do His bidding. In doing so we may lie.



Amen ginny,

The Lord showed me the connection between what Ananias and saphira did and what the sons of Eli did.
They sinned against the holiness of God, against knowledge, and they despised the Spirit of grace.

1 Sam 2:25
If a man sins against another man, one can intercede for him with the LORD; but if a man sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?" But they disregarded their father's warning, since the LORD had decided on their death.

There is a time when God decides on the death of someone, when He takes away their ability to repent.



_________________
Fifi

 2011/1/10 12:43Profile









 Re:

I also see the connection with the sons of Eli now you have pointed it out. Thanks for that :)

 2011/1/11 19:28
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 600


 Re:

In Acts 5:2 it was not particularly stated that Ananias explicitly claimed that what he laid before the apostle's feet was the total payment of the land they sold.

It could be that Peter was manifesting the 'gift of discernment' and had no carnal knowledge of what the couple were doing.

But what was so sinister in what they did. It is hard to think that there was a requirement to give all the proceed of the sale and not only a portion of it. Nor_ that anyone must give or sell anything at all and live communally.

Is it a sin to give only a portion of the payment if that what their hearts really desired? Was not the sharing then between believer totally voluntary without any compulsion?

Why did they lie? why did they agreed together to do this, what was their plan?

Were they really Christians or they were but spies, or some greedy, corrupt, self-seeking opportunists that only joined the congregation to take advantage of their communal living.

They wanted to rip the believers while still retaining their assets. They have no fear nor reverence that could lead to deep disorder of the congregation from within.

 2011/1/12 18:48Profile





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