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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Day of Worship

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kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:


Quote:
What do YOU think that we are supposed to do on a "Sabbath" day? Specifically?



To answer your question, I think we should do exactly what the 4th commandments says. On the sabbath day we should not work and spend the full day reflecting on the word of God and praying. This can be done with a church or not but we know the significance of fellowshiping with beievers. Nothing should distract us except the things that draws us close to God. It makes so much sense cause God knew that we will be caught up in a system that keeps man so busy that they will gradually pull away from God. I am not saying that we do not need to spend time with God everyday but you understand how much impact one will have if they spend a whole day in devotion to his Maker.

Also, I understand the points some of you made about Paul's assertion about the law been done away with. The same Paul also said, "What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." (Romans 7:7)

The law of God shows us the condition that we are in and how bad we need Jesus to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So what exactly do we mean when we say the law is done away in light of Romans 7:7.

Thanks for all those who are replying. You comments shows that you are all diligent student of the Word. I am learning a lot even though we seem to disagree.

 2011/1/10 21:07Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 611
Texas

 Re:

Dear brother (in Christ) kwamenat

Thank you for this excellent question: "So what exactly do we mean when we say the law is done away in light of Romans 7:7"

I can not speak for others, but I will share my own heart.
I believe the law has been done away with as the means of producing the righteousness of God in us. Formerly, the Law said "the man who does these things will live BY them...that will be his righteousness."
Yet, we have seen personally, and Paul saw supernaturally that the Law could not impart life because it was powerless to overcome the sinful nature. "If a law had been given that could impart life, righteousness would have come by the law." The Law was never meant to be the means by which the righteousness of God is fulfilled in us. Only the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ enables all the righteousness of the Law to be fully met in us.

Men observed the Sabbath for hundreds of years without it producing the righteousness of God in them. The Law was not even given to produce righteousness, it was actually added that tresspass might increase. We had an inner corruption none of us would ever have fully recognized apart from the law revealing sin. That is why Paul said "through the Law is the knowledge of SIN." Notice he did not say "sins" but SIN - meaning the inner law of corruption that had enslaved all of us. We would not have even known this corruption had made us slaves unless the Law had been added. Through the process of our agreeing that the Law is holy, righteous and good but not having the ability to do what we agreed with, we come to recognize INDWELLING SIN. This is the purpose of the Law, to expose INDWELLING SIN and help us see "the wretched man" we are. This leads us to cry out who will save us from this wretched state and thus the Law leads us to Jesus Christ who is the actual full righteousness of God.

It is the knowledge of Christ that leads us to receive the Spirit of Adoption where the very life of Christ through the Spirit restores our relationship as sons of God through faith. From this new relationship as sons of God through faith, the rightouesness that was in the Law is fully realized in those who are walking by the Spirit.

To summarize, the Law was done away with as "the means" of God's righteousness being fulfilled in us, although it still has a place as "the mirror" of righteousness. Rigtheousness is now produced in us by the inner working of God, the Holy Spirit abiding in us, through whom we become partakers of His divine nature. Thus the very life of Christ through the Holy Spirit is producing what the Law was never intended or able to produce. The Law is holy, righteous, and good, but it was never the means by which the actual power of doing righteousness is imparted to us.

Only living by the Spirit will produce the actual righteousness of God, not the observing of a single day or abstaining from certain foods, or observing months, weeks, and years. Those observances which devout Jews still diligently seek to keep, have never produced God's righteousness in them. NOW, a righteousness APART from the Law has been revealed - the righteousness of faith. This rigtheousness is through faith not in a letter, or commandment but in the Son in whom all the fullness dwelt bodily and through Him only are we made complete.

makrothumia

I forgot to add, that I do not see "observing a day" as opposed to faith. If a man observes a day above a day by faith then that man is approved of God. I loved your description of the benefit you receive from observing a day and although I do not limit such an observance to the Sabbath, I have benefitted much from doing those very things you so wonderfully described.


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/1/11 8:52Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

My brother,

I agree with everything you mentioned in your previous post. I am afraid though that it is this kind of exposition of righteousness by faith that makes people feel like they can do anything they want because they commandments of God can't be kept anyways. Yes, I believe in righteousness by faith but faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Since Christ lives in us we will produce His righteousness.

God's law is not the problem. We are! God's law is perfect and when obeyed brings us happiness. We can obey the law through the Spirit like you said. We can produce the righteousness of God if the Spirit lives in us. Without Holiness no one will see God (Heb 12:14).

The thing that puzzles me about this whole law thing is that most people will have agreed with me if i talked about thou shalt not steal, murder, cover, etc. People have no problem with 9 of the commandments except the 4th commandment. They understand that by the Spirit will overcome stealing, adultery, etc but the Sabbath is not suppose to be there in a sense because not fully understanding the scripture they think is is referring to the sabbaths in the ceremonial law. I will address this more towards the end of this post


Quote:
Only living by the Spirit will produce the actual righteousness of God, not the observing of a single day or abstaining from certain foods, or observing months, weeks, and years. Those observances which devout Jews still diligently seek to keep, have never produced God's righteousness in them. NOW, a righteousness APART from the Law has been revealed - the righteousness of faith. This rigtheousness is through faith not in a letter, or commandment but in the Son in whom all the fullness dwelt bodily and through Him only are we made complete.



I believe in your statement above you were stating Colossians 2:16 and i completely agree with you because this was about ceremonial laws and not the 10 commandments. For example compare Colossians 2:16 with Ezekiel 45:17. All of these things were pointing to ceremonial laws. They were things that were part of the sanctuary system even though many people do not realize that. The ceremonial laws are nailed to the cross because they were a shadow of things to come- Christ. It is the ceremonial laws that are done away with and not the 10 commandments written with God own fingers. The ceremonial laws were written by moses and that was the handwriting of requirements against us, which was contrary to us (Col 2:14)

We must distinguish the ceremonial law written by moses and the 10 commandments written with God's fingers. The Sabbath in the 4th commandment is not the same as the sabbaths in the ceremonial laws. This 7th day sabbath goes back to creation in Genesis 2:3 when God blessed the Sabbath day and sanctified it.

Hope you see where I am coming from my good brother. Thanks for keeping me in the Word.

 2011/1/11 12:24Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Romans 14:1-12

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:


“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.


_________________
Christiaan

 2011/1/11 12:29Profile
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

Mt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

As with some of the other commandments, Jesus took them to a new level. Mt 5:21,22,27,28

In my understanding, the Sabbath IS NOT done away with but instead fulfilled.

As God gave the people a day of rest in the OT He also gives us rest in the NT. But instead of just one day, it is eternal rest from our own works/ways. Thus fulfilling the law of the Sabbath, which glorifies His Son rather than the prophets. That which could not be accomplished by the law is now completed in Him. See Heb 4:4,8,9 The law was a teacher to bring us unto Christ.

Here's a message that may explain further.

The Sabbath-Rest For Christians - Zac Poonen
http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/video_message.php?date=09_05&issue=198&title=The+Sabbath-Rest+For+Christians


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Michelle

 2011/1/11 13:10Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Thanks for the comment. I agree with the text. There is no need to argue over pity things like whether we can eat foods offered to idols like what Paul was talking about here. As long as you know the idols have no power over it you can eat it and you will be fine. If it is an offense to you then don't eat it. It's not worth the dispute. Same with holiday observance(i.e. Christmas). This is what Paul was addressing.

Just to let you know, this has nothing to do with the Sabbath. it is talking about the Christians and some aspects of Paganism.

Paul will not dare say that we can live however we want as Christians and act like all is good! Drink what you want, eat what you want, do whatever you want and feel good about it, don't let no one judge you! No that is not what Paul is saying.

When it comes to things that are not necessary in itself a sin Paul caution us not to dispute but we are to caution each other if we are living in sin so that the Holy Spirit can help us to live as true Christians.

 2011/1/11 13:17Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

STAR OF GOD,

Thank you for your comment. Hebrews 4 may not be as simple as we think. That is a whole Bible Study in itself.

The ceremonial Sabbaths (Leviticus 23:24-36) points to Christ but the 7th day Sabbath points BACK to Creation!

Those who go to heaven will keep the Sabbath in heaven: Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD ... from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.” Far from being nailed to the cross, the weekly seventh-day Sabbath will continue to be observed after God recreates the earth.

 2011/1/11 13:29Profile
StarofG0D
Member



Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re:

Brother, I wasn't aware what your were asking until after posting and going back over and rereading. However, here is another thread that also speaks of the Sabbath, they specifically address these verses in Isaiah 66.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=21671&forum=36&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0

I also found it interesting, glad you brought these verses up. Thanks.


_________________
Michelle

 2011/1/11 13:44Profile
kwamenat
Member



Joined: 2011/1/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

Ya, this issue is worth contemplating over. Most Christians will not argue with you if you talk about the other 9 commandments (murdering, stealing, lying, having no other gods before me,etc) but not the 4th commandment (sabbath) seems to be a problem. We only think 9 out of the 10 is necessary. I believe the 4th commandment is there for a reason. I wish everyone will take time to read the 10 commandments and a whole different light. This is God's constution for humanity not just the Israelites. I believe it is one of the greatest truth after the cross that we have failed to see. The 7th day Sabbath shall be kept forever (Isaiah 66:22-23)

 2011/1/12 13:04Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

I hope that you can understand where we are coming from too. Many believers do not feel bound to the Law -- and the Ten Commandments are a part of the Law of the Old Covenant.

I don't follow the Ten Commandments -- because I already fulfill them by following the new Law -- the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus. I don't have to follow "thou shalt not commit adultery" because the Law of Christ teaches me to not lust. I don't have to follow "thou shalt not kill" because the Law of Christ teaches me to not be angry without cause. If we fulfill the Law of Christ, we have fulfilled all of the law and the prophets.

The same is true of the rest of those commands -- including the guiding principle of the original Sabbath. We remember, worship and serve the Lord EVERYDAY. All of our work is for His benefit...for His glory.

Over the years, we have had several people who push the Sabbath as a binding requirement for believers. You yourself asked the question...which provoked the answers from believers. Most believers do not feel that we are bound to strict observational requirements of the Sabbath because Christ finished the work and provided a new law. By fulfilling that new covenant law, we fulfill the previous.


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Christopher

 2011/1/12 16:04Profile





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