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 Re:

Quote:
For your edification........The Spirit in heaven that communes with the spirit in you that defines you as one of the children of God is the Holy Spirit in you and not the unclean spirit of man in you that is the same spirit that was in the Pharisees that caused Jesus to say that Satan was their father

The Lord knows if I am arrogant or not, but If I am, I have submitted that to Him, thank you for pointing that out to me, I wish to have all things under His care and instruction.

I have one question for you.

Are you learning anything from the other posters including myself that has helped you understand the word of God clearly? If yes, please explain which ones that you did not know about but now have a more better understanding?

 2011/1/13 20:33
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Quote:
The Lord knows if I am arrogant or not, but If I am, I have submitted that to Him, thank you for pointing that out to me, I wish to have all things under His care and instruction.



That is a very gracious reply to a rebuke and I do appreciate it......... In the history of most of the dialogue between us your tone here is noticeably different.

Now my question for you is did you not notice the change in my tone when I replied to AtG when after her last post to me when for the first time in several posts and PM's from her she was not making accusations of how I am wrong about everything or some sort of warning of blatant disregard for scripture or worshiping idols?

Because on my part my response to her for being respectful to me was to be both gentle and encouraging with what she had right and I was equally gentle with what she needed to spend some more time with.

On the other hand on a post here at SI (weeks ago) I used Lysa's name as someone who I thought had a pretty good handle on things on a thread she was not even involved on. However on another thread when after I said that the Apostles possessed something that the church today does not even though that in the end we will all be the same, she came he came at me accusing me of "pure conjunction on my part" and then gave me a warning not to add things to the Bible...... Unfortunately not only was her thinking in error but so was her approach but then she added insult to injury with her warning to me. Next she comes in on this thread with guns blazing with more false accusations at the same time you start to kick your rhetoric up.

I do not expect the impossible of people to start with all the knowledge of God and I am willing to take the time to work with them and help them with what they need to learn........ for sure the stance on knowledge and revelation here is no different than I find at any baptist/pentecostal church or website....... once you have heard what one has to say you have pretty much heard them all. What is different here is that contrary opinions are allowed without the poster being banned or censored for it. Hopefully that attitude will bear fruit for both old and new members here.

I have been preaching the same message since 04 and the reaction of others to something they have yet to learn is 99% of the time volatile once the usual and beginning courtesies are done away with. For example after first welcoming me local clergy told my dying father that they thought his son was an end time false prophet. Even if they did think that for sure they had no business saying that to my father and that is but one small example of what could be pages of the abuses I have been through at the hands of the church should I ever decide to host a "tell and show"

For example when after a secular business deal with local christians, their lies and dishonesty caused me to loose a six figure number that left me financially destitute. However I never did take anyone to court and the only thing I have gotten in return was more lies. Instead of me repaying their evil with what they do deserve my response has been to forgive them and ask God to do the same.

However their response to when the word got out that there were multiple qualified witnesses to my father being raised from the dead they then said that Satan was working through me......... Very nice and very typical of them but if they had a clue of the truth they would know that Satan cannot raise the dead and the verses in Revelation about the beast that they use for evidence is one more reflection of their ignorance and the garbage that they teach.

The list goes on and on about a miracle-less and arrogant church members that always know it all while continually lying, robbing, stealing etc etc........ still I take a lot time to try to help them with what they refuse to acknowledge that they need help with........ but according to "mguilder" he (she?) does not think that Christ is me just because that person does not like my attitude....... to be quite frank I could not care less what any person thinks of me and "mguilders" post is a good example of why I do not. I see Paul was quick to let those who were doing the teaching know that they still needed to be taught and I often find myself in the same position. For sure when knowledge and truth returns to the church God will return to the church and there will be signs following

Meanwhile all false doctrines are from Satan and considering what I have gone through at the hands of the church both local and online where God still never appears at or seldom works through, all things considered I think that my attitude is pretty good

Hopefully AtG will get around to responding to my last post and continue in the same respectful tone that she put forth in her last post.

Quote:
Are you learning anything from the other posters including myself that has helped you understand the word of God clearly? If yes, please explain which ones that you did not know about but now have a more better understanding?



No ........ I have yet to learn anything here and if and when that happens I will let you know. However IMO there are some good archives of people like Tozer that are nice to read.

I did compliment an OP post the other day but unfortunately it appears that I was the only person who liked what the OP posted.

Blessings

Doug.


 2011/1/14 7:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
No ........ I have yet to learn anything here and if and when that happens I will let you know.

I have learned much from this thread.

Thank you for taking the time to express your personal experience it was appreciated.

However, there were very few things that I do agree with you on, which I did collaborate with another poster on here in saying that I did agree with him on this or that point.

The majority of the information you've provide throughout this thread has done wonders for me in that it stirred up what I do know as truth and my mind has been filled with the knowledge of God, scriptures were being pulled together as I was typing, it was marvellous. When you said something that was contrary to the word of God, the Spirit of God quickened my understanding and I immediately was taken to where the text was and it blew me away. I was amazed at how you ever came to the conclusions that you came to.

I do not doubt that you have raised the dead, I do not doubt any of the signs and wonders that you may have experienced. But, I do doubt your theology.

William Branham was a miracle working power house in his day. He taught the people faith and people were healed. He even raised the dead and done many other wonderful works. One thing he wasn't, he wasn't a teacher. He left the field to which God called him and went into teaching. Some brethren that are still living today had approached him and told him that it wasn't God's will for him to teach but to work in the gifts to which God sent him. But he refused to bow to their warnings. One of his teachings that has survived is the Serpent Seed doctrine which is a work of heresy.

Some years ago, David Wilkerson went to Benny Hinn and practically told him the same thing. God had not called Benny to teach. If you have heard any of Benny's teachings, they are far fetched, off the wall, foolish. But when he speaks of faith and encourages the people to have faith in God things happen.

I would encourage you to leave the world of teaching to teachers and continue raising the dead, and working in the other gifts.

There is great joy, great blessings in the healing ministries, be a blessing where God has placed you. We all have our place.

In all sincerity,


 2011/1/14 8:28
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re: Saint or sinner

"Are believers in Christ a saint and sinner or a saint who is sometimes sinning or...? What's our identity? Because the old men died, new creation is there. So it's not I but sin in me. How do you guys look at this?"

This was the original question that started this post. I have read the multiple pages of discussion with interest and yet I believe there is a simple answer to the original question. I would encourage everyone to read Paul's introductions to his letters to the churches and see how he addresses the believers. See if he addressed them as
"saints" or "sinners" in Christ Jesus. Why not let the wisdom of the apostles speak for itself?

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/1/14 9:29Profile









 Re: Sinners or Saints?

Yes there is a simple answer to this. Believers are Saints!!!

A believer is no longer a sinner nor is he just a forgiven sinner saved by grace.

Believers receive Christ's very life and are made NEW creations.

If believers sin, they are still Saints. Their sin does not turn them into sinners once again.

 2011/1/14 10:44
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Approved


It is never the person doing the healing or raising the dead etc etc....... After all when a person dies the spirit goes back to God who gave it and only God alone can send the spirit back to the person....... whether He does or not is as the Apostles say all because it is the prayers of a righteous person that bring forth great works from God. I strongly suggest you consider the next verse before you insult God again on who is doing what with your not so subtle comparison of Benny Hinn and others deemed to be false prophets with signs and wonders that are being done by God. I do not mock God as you just have and besides witnessing signs and wonders I have seen lifelong preachers die when they turned against truth. For sure there is no one above God's reproach should they cross the wrong line and I have far to much fear of the Lord to talk as you do.

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. THE EFFECTUAL FERVENT PRAYER OF A RIGHTEOUS MAN AVAILETH MUCH

It is always God being able to work through a person because the sin of unbelief in the truth is not hindering God' from working in them like it is in the status quo evangelical Christian that you see at worship every sunday throughout Protestant churchland........ however I do have my doubts about any deity doing signs and wonders that consistently is only showing up at large gathering when lots of money is coming in........ however if that is your idea of works that glorify God so be it....... you certainly do not get any nod of agreement from me.

Signs following are to be the norm just as they were with the Apostles and God's prophet's in the OT. If you would shed all the false doctrines that you currently believe in and start to learn the truth in time signs and wonders would be seen coming from you too.

The Apostle were a prophecy of a third day ministry spoken of by both Jesus and the Apostles and now that we are entering into the third day we will see more and more signs and wonder as the increase in the knowledge prophesied of by Daniel comes to be.

I find it most unfortunate that you have come to the conclusions that you have about me because all that you have been clear about is that you do not accept what I say rather than take a stand for whatever it is that you believe in........ at least as far as I have seen at the time of reading your reply to me all you have done is criticize rather than reveal any truth that might help to pull the church out of it current dismal state of neither knowledge nor works. FYI God looks at those who gather around as either part of the solution or part of the problem and those who are not part of the solution are almost ALWAYS part of the problem.

Still I wish you the best.

Blessings

Doug

PS I cannot imagine how that if someone was actually able to do the healing or raising the dead themselves that you speak of by not having to wait for God to do it when He choses to, why they would not be camped out 24/7 at emergency room hospitals across the globe would take someone with a very selfish heart........ Something I do not have and some have criticized me here locally because I have continued to help drug addicts after they have already robbed me once and often they do it again........ but I am still in their corner when they need me giving them a clean bed, healthy food and a good word.

 2011/1/14 16:25Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re:

Dear Doug,

Will you please provide atleast two or three witnesses to the signs and wonders God has wrought through you so that the matters you have spoken can be established. I will personally take the time to speak with them and this may help to provide assurance to some who are currently doubting. Many make claims and so few offer substantial evidence. Those who actually do the truth as you say you do come to the light so that it may be manifest that their works are wrought in God.

If you prefer you can send me a private message to protect the privacy of the persons who will verify your testimony by their eye witness accounts. Please include phone numbers so that I can speak to them in person. Please provide your own personal information as well so that I can contact believers where you live and those with whom you are fellowshipping. If you assemble with others in a local gathering I would especially like to speak with some of them.

I am sending this note openly to set an example that we should examine and test first, before we accuse. I will appreciate any assistance you can provide.

Alan Martin
573-783-7760

I believe you can understand the importance of testing all things and not believing every spirit. I only ask that this matter may be clearly established.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2011/1/14 17:22Profile









 Re: Last Posting

Quote:
No ........ I have yet to learn anything here and if and when that happens I will let you know.

Doug, when you made this statement, it was necessary not to proceed any further. I am sorry, but I find nothing in what your teaching, edifying.

If I am blind, I humbly ask that you pray for me, nothing any worse than being blind spiritually. :)

 2011/1/14 17:58
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Quote:
Dear Doug,

Will you please provide atleast two or three witnesses to the signs and wonders God has wrought through you so that the matters you have spoken can be established. I will personally take the time to speak with them and this may help to provide assurance to some who are currently doubting. Many make claims and so few offer substantial evidence. Those who actually do the truth as you say you do come to the light so that it may be manifest that their works are wrought in God.

If you prefer you can send me a private message to protect the privacy of the persons who will verify your testimony by their eye witness accounts. Please include phone numbers so that I can speak to them in person. Please provide your own personal information as well so that I can contact believers where you live and those with whom you are fellowshipping. If you assemble with others in a local gathering I would especially like to speak with some of them.

I am sending this note openly to set an example that we should examine and test first, before we accuse. I will appreciate any assistance you can provide.

Alan Martin
573-783-7760

I believe you can understand the importance of testing all things and not believing every spirit. I only ask that this matter may be clearly established.




Alan

Your response is normal and I am counting on it being a common one if my book ever sells more than just a few "by chance" copies...... for sure satan will want to stop the truth from getting out and the best way to top the truth is to cast doubt on the one who is telling it.

So whether you lead that charge or someone else does makes no difference because I am quite confident that if you do not someone else will. Consequently the same as I respect your doubts hopefully you will respect my needs for more doubters than just you or any other nay-sayers here to be silenced if not done away with all together without expecting witnesses to be unduly discomforted ....... therefore I am not going to waste the privacy of witnesses until I feel that it is the best time to do so........... for sure I have enough experience with the law to understand liability and if I was found to be a liar I would expect my own publisher to be leading the charge against me

However take this to heart and firmly plant it in your memory banks. I do not have a signs and wonders ministry but a ministry of teaching the truth that has been witnessed by signs and wonders that have been seen by others. Anyone else who preaches the truth will also have some sort of miracles that give witness to the presence of the truth at work. I am not surprised that you are not used to hearing about miracles being wrought by God...... for sure the church that exist today has nothing in common with the church of the Apostles other than a name

I was surprised when I got the first edited version back late yesterday because originally I was not expecting it before the middle of February at the absolute earliest. Although I had heard that for some reason it had been moved into the production process earlier than when I was told it would be started on, it is nice to have the proof in hand

Bottom line is your chance to try to prove me to be a liar is not far off

Blessings

Doug

 2011/1/15 3:43Profile









 Re: Saint or sinner


Dear Doug,

On reading your latest post, I'm even less clear of the claim you make for your relationship with the Jesus Christ of the Bible, His teachings, and, His example.

Here's what I mean:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

In regard to how you react to opposition, and your implied satisfaction at the deaths of those you claim opposed you - even attributing them to God - I am shocked. The Sermon on the Mount is the most fundamental of Jesus Christ's teachings, and near the beginning, He puts:

Matthew 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you FALSELY, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Later, the apostles experience this joy, in Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.


Now, your reaction to makrothumia's last post bears no resemblance to the historical facts of Jesus Christ's miracles, all of which were conducted with witnesses - usually many. Even when Peter raised Tabitha in Acts 9, he returned her alive to a group of people who knew she had died, who had expressly called upon him to pray for her. Yet your attribution to Alan is both baseless amd embarrassing:

Quote:
your chance to try to prove me to be a liar

It's one thing being bound by copyright; it's another to assume everyone is against you.


 2011/1/15 13:36





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