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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : DANGER - KEEP OUT!!!

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Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 232
Chapala, Jalisco, Mexico



By Lahry Sibley

1 Cor 15:56 Now sin is the sting of death, and sin exercises its power [upon the soul] through the Law.

DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE – KEEP OUT- we all know what that sign means. It is a warning sign that impending danger lurks beyond the sign and high voltage conductors are present and energized.

Is the sign put there for our benefit or to burden us and restrict our freedom? What if we saw that the gate where the sign hung was surprisingly unlocked? Curiosity sets in and we ignore the sign and enter in. We start looking around at all the equipment inside the place. Maybe we get scared, and leave. Maybe we get even more curious and decide to climb up on the equipment and have a look around.
The next day, the newspaper has a headline – MAN IGNORES SIGNS AND IS ELECTROCUTED. Is electricity evil? No. Is the power company that generates it evil? No. Was the power company who hung the sign evil for putting it there in the first place? No.

Electricity is no respecter of persons. It can kill young people, old people, skinny people, fat people, sick people, healthy people, church people, un-churched people. You violate its physical laws and you die.

Is the law evil? No. Is the sign that gave warning evil? No. Just because the person who violates the law is a Christian, is he/she dead non-the-less because of violation of that law? No. Was the warning sign put in place because someone cared about your safety and personal well being? YES! Is that person evil because they tried to restrict your freedom? NO!!!

It’s not different any with God’s moral law. Like His law of electricity, God’s moral law has a “sting of death”. The law cannot stop you from violating it. It can only warn you. Make bad choices and the result is “deadly”. God gave us 10 warning signs. He told us what were good choices and those that were deadly. But the choice to obey those signs belongs to us alone. The law cannot stop you from breaking them. Nor can it invoke the penalty for violation. The law is the determining factor for the ONE Who does invoke the penalty. Does the law ever change? NO. Is it ever set aside? NO. So the wages of sin is death, for saint and sinner alike. The only difference is, if you are sinner, there is yet hope. Jesus died for your sins. If you are a saint and you willfully violate God’s law, you are without hope.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

That’s what the Word of God says. In light of what is being taught from pulpits today around the world, this is a very frightening and sobering passage. The wise will read and heed.

So please don’t argue with me about this. I did not write it. My job is to try and help you understand truth and light. Your job is to choose between life and death. Choose Life.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (If you don’t understand “blessing and cursing”, read Deu 28.)

Life begins at the cross, with death. Not Jesus’ death. That is finished. The cross today is for your death. Death unto self and sin, and alive unto God. No death, no life. Don’t gamble with your eternal destiny, CHOOSE LIFE. It is your decision, not God’s. You alone can make it, or ignore it. CHOOSE LIFE, for all eternity. THE FAITH THAT SAVES, IS THE FAITH THAT OBEYS. Selah - Lahry

Lahry Sibley

 2010/12/31 9:53Profile


Ironically, the argument set forth in this post is in direct contradiction to the scriptures referenced: Hebrews 10:26-29. The letter to the Hebrews was originally written as a warning to Jewish believers who, because of persecution, were moving away from faith in Christ BACK to the old covenant law. The very thing this post is asking believers to do.....amazing!

As referenced the old covenant, through Moses, said life was a choice. "Do this and live, do this and die! I mean just read Romans and Galatians....and Hebrews. The entrance of the Law. The whole history of Israel, was to absolutely convince the world that LIFE could not come through the law. Love for God and neighbor cannot come through the keeping of external demands. It is impossible because of our flesh.

No, the law never, ever, ever changes.The law represents the justice of God. The greatest evidence we have of the immutability of the law is seen in the death of Christ! Jesus was put to death because the SIN of the world was laid upon Him. God's Justice was satisfied. The law never has, and never will change, BUT THE LAW CANNOT PRODUCE LIFE!

The New Covenant says, " He who has the Son, has life...!" (John 5:12)

Jesus Christ fulfilled all the types, shadows, and requirements of the law. I mean c'mon, just read the book of Hebrews and you will see that is what the writer is trying to set forth. And now, those who would have life, come to Him, in weakness, and simply receive, as little children, HIS LIFE!

I will be so bold as to say that the person who wrote this does not understand his bible.

 2010/12/31 10:52

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2737
Phoenix, Arizona USA


Here is something from Poul Madsen on the matter of the law...

IN chapter six (Book of Romans) the apostle has proclaimed the liberating truth that we are set free from the dominion of sin and have become the servants of God. We have died to sin (6:2). He has also said that we are no longer under law but under grace, and that as a consequence sin shall not have dominion over us (6:14). By this he has implied that in reality we are also dead to the law. Can he really mean this?
We can understand that we have died to sin, but expect that the consequence of this will surely be that we are alive to the law, which is really the highest expression of the will of God. Can he really mean that the alternative is to be under the law and therefore under sin, uncleanness and lawlessness or under grace and therefore under obedience, righteousness and God? Can this be Paul's gospel? Yes, this is what he preaches without apology. This is his "bold" and unbelievable gospel, and it is the gospel of God. Although the law was given by God, it cannot help us to take even one step along the way of salvation. It contributed nothing to our justification, and equally can contribute nothing at all to our sanctification.

Ron Halverson

 2010/12/31 11:16Profile


In the light,


We died to the law, in order that me may be married to another, Christ, so that we might bring forth fruit unto God. What the law could not do (actually produce righteousness, both imputed and experiential) God did in sending His own Son, so that the righteousness of the law (LOVE) might be produced in us!

The only thing an external command can do (however good and just and holy) is condemn us!

 2010/12/31 11:37


We have been set free from

IF we walk in the faith(fulness of Jesus Christ.

(This is not saying we are free from sinning, which certainly implies that neither are we free from the foundation on which the accounting of sin is built: God's perfect standard, the law.)

Personal intense study of Hebrews in relation to it's sources (all the other books, particularily Torah,) will clearly show anybody with a heart turned towards obeying God, that it is not the standard that has changed at all. In fact, God's law has been proven more valid than ever, this being the reason Jesus lived to give His body and life blood.

Hebrews is only talking about those who had given up not the moral/health/social laws, but rather were returning to the Levitical outward ordained foreshadowings of what Jesus superceeded and (ful)filled to overflowing: circumcission/sacrafices/etc.

So many say they love God, but even the understanding of what this really means has been perverted:

John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments...

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him...

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So, whether the law proceeded from the Father or the Son, is remains unchanging even as God is.

Jesus said, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. . .Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
'workers of iniquity' = 'breakers-of-God's-Torah.' "

Mt. 5.18-19. . .7:21-23

Consider whether it is the lues of Lutheran TRADITIONS in Protestantism you are trusting in or what God actually says.



 2010/12/31 12:05


No one is disputing having a heart turned towards God or walking in obedience to Him. That actually is very much a part of Salvation. The whole reason were were created was to walk with God, bearing His image, partaking in His life, sharing in the Joy and life of the Godhead. I am saved to Joy in God. Their is no life or reason for existence apart from Him. HE IS LIFE. I actually love God and I want to be like Him. I want to love like Him.

The point is, THE LAW, the external command, no matter how holy, and good, and just, and perfect, cannot, and never could, produce a LOVE for God, nor can it produce obedience, which is manifest in LOVE for my neighbor. Even Jesus Christ, the LIVING WORD, preaching the Sermon on the Mount, could not produce LIFE in men. HE HAD TO DIE first, and be resurrected. If Jesus did not die and rise from the dead, then all HE is to me is an external law, He is simply perfection, which I could never be. He died, rose from the dead, ascended to the Father, and then sent HIS spirit into me, so that HE might live His life through me.

Again, "What the law COULD NOT do, GOD DID, in sending His own Son....(Romans 8)

The promise of the New Covenant was that, what the law could not do and man WOULD not do, God would do, unilaterally.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 2010/12/31 12:35

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2737
Phoenix, Arizona USA


The point is, THE LAW, the external command, no matter how holy, and good, and just, and perfect, cannot, and never could, produce a LOVE for God, nor can it produce obedience, which is manifest in LOVE for my neighbor.


Madsen goes on to say...

The gospel is God's own righteousness. In it is revealed the righteousness of God or righteousness from God. It is not a means which we can use to become righteous in ourselves, but it gives us righteousness from God by faith and unto faith. In this way the law is fulfilled. The gospel, therefore, does not confront us with the law, but with Christ. He who believes the gospel is righteous before God for time and eternity. He has not first to win righteousness, for he is fully righteous. He does not have to prove that he is fulfilling the law, for God's righteousness needs no proofs. The law has no demands to make on such a man; he is not living within its sphere and is not occupied with its "Thou shalts" and its "Thou shalt nots", but is filled with the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Ron Halverson

 2010/12/31 15:36Profile


From the above qoute of Heb. 8.7-13,
of which v. 7 and v.13 are being emphasised on that post:

1) verse 7 shows this section to be a continuation of what is being explained before these verses


2) verse 13 is an incomplete statement completed in 9.1
(which says: "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary..."
(and the text continues speaking of Levitical ordinaces ( the sanctuary, the menorah, the table and shewbread...etc.)

So, this is not talking at all about moral and civic duties of the Torah.

To simplify, without getting into terms used to define parts of rhetoric in argument, this is part of an "if, if, if. . .then" progressive debate from a previous premise.

[ The above is stated to show that this quote is quoted out of context.]

None the less, note in verse 7 it is clarified that the problem was not in the covenant but in the people who were to abide in it.

As well, the qoute of Jeremiah between these 2 verses even today is future tense. This is not yet established as physical fact.

Further, those synonyms used in the above qoute of v.13
(from all known Koine' mss.),
taken in context say nothing whatsoever of the old covenant becoming obsolete. Rather than obsolete, they are on the verge of disappearing.

Something that will eventually vanish
something that is not observed.
How could it even be that one small part of this argument in Hebrews were used if it no longer exists?

(The Levitical ordinances are the example and type,
and Jesus Christ's finished work-->in us,
is the reality
in prototype through it's metathesis-->and antitype,

Just because Jesus kept the law perfectly does not mean that we are not supposed to obey God in this.

Aren't we supposed to be conforming to Jesus' in thought, word, and deed?

If we indeed are Christ's, we will walk in His spirit, abiding in His proviso substance behind and supporting Torah: judgement in mercy and faith(fulness). . . above and beyond Torah.

Walking in His spirit not only fills the chalice-->being the letter;
but His spirit through us will be poured to overflowing out from this chalice.

The law of God's covenant was never intended to make a man righteous, however the law does say that when we obey it's standard with heart's circumcised, we do learn to love God (and man).
(Read Deut. chs. 8-11 to see the purpose and results of obeying God in it. )

The law of God was given on Pentecost, by our loving Heavenly Father to His children as His best way to do things so that we may prosper on earth.
This is the first grace.

At the advent establishing the new covenant, the first Pentecost after Jesus' ascended, it was sealed by the promise of His spirit coming true in the lives of we who walk in newness of life by taking part in His death.
This is grace upon grace.

Now we not only have God's best way for us to live before Him and with others here, but also His spirit enabling us to walk in faith(fulness) above the law. . . like water pouring over the brim of the chalices=laws containment.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. . ;Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good. . .Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. . .for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
(I Cor. 7.19, Rom. 7.12, Jas. 4.17, Rom. 14.23c)

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(I Jn. 3.1-6)



 2010/12/31 15:49

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