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ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 What does the bible say about apostles.

To start off, here is a quote from Larry Tomczak.

[i]"Apostles are men given as gifts by the ascended Christ for the ongoing building of His Church. They are men of proven ministry sent from a local church for translocal work."[/i]


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:01Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: What is an Apostle?

1) The word “Apostle” means “ the sent one” John 3:16
This means that the “sent one” is not self –appointed, but sent
Jesus often said that He was sent by His Father. Jn. 13:17, 34; Gal 4:4,6; 1 Jn 4:9

2) He does not “stay”: but “is sent”.
a) All the fruit of the apostles’ labours is to be handed over to the elders.
b) New converts are primarily cared for by elders, not apostles. Acts 14:23 Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them
c) Apostles minister in al the churches, but control none, unless he is the “presiding” elder of the church to which he belongs. We read of “ the elders of Ephesus” but not of “ the apostles of Ephesus”
d) Apostles and elders are often associated together in local leaderships. Acts 15:2, 4, 6, 22, 23
e) One man can be both an apostle and elder. i.e. Peter and John.
Both were apostles Lk 6:12,13
Both were elders. 1 Pet 5:1, 2 Jn 1, 3 Jn 1
When travelling-apostles
When home-elders
f) An apostle cannot be higher than an elder- otherwise you develop a “papacy”- in a local situation.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:02Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: What does the bible say about apostles.

I was involved in discussions on this very topic in which we tried to match up current ministries with NT biblical ministries and then trace their origins back to the ancient Synagogues. As far as Apostle in the New Testament sense is concerned, the closest thing we have to that is a Missionary. Even though I believe in the 5 fold ministry of the Church, I believe what we call missionaries would best fit the title. Certainly we have to agree that the NT canon is closed and that any modern day Apostle would not carry the authority that the NT writers carried. To grant a person full blown Apostolic status would be to open the canon of scripture to new revelation. That, I can never accept.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/9 15:13Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: What does the bible say about apostles.

Quote:
"Apostles are men given as gifts by the ascended Christ for the ongoing building of His Church. They are men of proven ministry sent from a local church for translocal work."


They weren't sent from a local church. They were sent by the risen Christ and released from the local church.

The Darby translation captures the word 'apoluO' which means to 'set at liberty, to let go':[b]And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, [u]Separate[/u] me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, [u]they let them go[/u]. They therefore, having been sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia, and thence sailed away to Cyprus. [/b](Act 13:2-4 Darby)

The word 'separate' is the same word that Paul used to describe the cutting of the umbilical cord in Galatians 1:15.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/11/9 15:14Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
As far as Apostle in the New Testament sense is concerned, the closest thing we have to that is a Missionary. Even though I believe in the 5 fold ministry of the Church, I believe what we call missionaries would best fit the title.

I believe in the contemporary gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (although I number them 4) but I don't think we can really equate missionaries with apostles.

In an earlier post I pointed out the very clear separation between the old 'local' church and the 'apostles'. Barnabas and Paul were very clearly detached from the local church. God required it and the local church released them. An apostle has a specific function rather than a particular origin or target. In some ways they are like one-man churches (not one-man ministries) in that they seem to have all the gifts necessary to see a church functioning fully from day one. Most modern missionaries are tailored for specific roles in the receiving country.

Quote:
Apostles minister in al the churches, but control none, unless he is the “presiding” elder of the church to which he belongs. We read of “ the elders of Ephesus” but not of “ the apostles of Ephesus”

The concept of a [i]presiding elder[/i] really has no basis in scripture but is part of the post-apostolic development of monarchical rule.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/11/9 15:32Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
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Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Gentleman, I am humbled by your replies, thankyou! :-D


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:34Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
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Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Who are Apostles?



1) Jesus – “The Apostle”. Heb 3:1…fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.
He was “the” sent one. Jn 13:16; Jn 3:17

2) The twelve apostles.
a. The were also “sent ones”
b. They were “witnesses of Christ’s Resurrection”. Acts 1:22,26
c. The number was fixed. Rev 21:14, Matt 10:2; Jn 6:70,71
d. When Judas committed suicide, God led the other eleven to replace him. Acts 1:21-26
e. God accepted Matthias according to acts 2:14
f. Paul was never intended by God to be one of “The twelve”. He did not meet the necessary requirements to become on the twelve. He only became a Christian three years later. He distinguishes himself from the twelve in 1 Cor 15:5-8

3) Other Apostles in the New Testament.
The Father “sends” the Twelve- while here on earth
The Spirit “sends” others-now that Christ has returned to heaven, after His Ascension.
a. There are more apostles named in the New Testament than any other Ephesians 4 ministry: four prophets named, one evangelist, one teacher, no pastors!
b. There are nine other apostles mentioned by name:
i. Barnabas-Acts 14:14
ii. Paul-Acts 14:14
iii. Andronicus-Rom 16:7
iv. Junias-Rom 16:7
v. Silas (Silvanus)-1 Thess 1:1; 2:7
vi. Timothy-1 Thess 1:1; 2:7
vii. James, Jesus’ natural brother and not one of the Twelve-Gal 1:19
viii. Apollos-1 Cor 4:6, 9
ix. Epaphroditus-Phil 2:25

If the number was fixed at twelve, then there would not have been a possibility of others posing as apostles and deceiving the believers-Rev 2:2
This was some 50 years after Pentecost!
c. Also there are references to counterfeit or false apostles-2 Cor 11:13

4) There is far more said about the ministry of apostles that all other ministries combined







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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:37Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
The concept of a [i]presiding elder[/i] really has no basis in scripture but is part of the post-apostolic development of monarchical rule.



Hence the " ". ;-)


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:39Profile
philologos
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 Re:

Quote:
Gentleman, I am humbled by your replies, thankyou!


and I by yours! :-D
This topic has been a life-long study and passion. ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/11/9 15:41Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
This topic has been a lofe-long study and passion.



Thank goodness I've got notes, because you'd probably pull strips out of me. And based on your photograph it seems that that life-long passion is substantially longer than my entire life existence. Not that you look 'that' old. 8-)


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/11/9 15:45Profile





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