| A question about God's hatred|
Yesterday I was leading my bible study at my church and one of the ladies at our church said that God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. I respect Leonard Ravenhill and Paul Washer a lot and I know what they believe on the matter, I also discerned the scriptures myself. I turned them to psalm 5:5 and it says that God hates all workers of iniquity, I told them I don't know everything, but when I read the scripture it doesn't say God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. I explained this to them that God loves his creation and the one created in his image he does, but at the same time his holiness is against the wicked or sinners or anyone who contradicts his perfect nature. He wants them to repent and be saved, but his wrath or hatred or holy hatred abides upon them still. I know I can be wrong, but when are we going to interpret scripture the way scripture says it. I do know also the view about election, that God from all of eternity decided to by his grace have mercy on some which would be love and those he did not choose his hatred remained on them kind of like Esau I have hated and Jacob I loved. I have also read from a theology book of mine that the man said if I am not wrong is that we once were created in the image of God, but we are now corrupt, Adam and Eve are the only ones who were truly created in his image perfectly. I might be misunderstanding him. But, anyways the scripture in other place makes it seem as if he does have hatred towards those who don't obey him. But, at the same time seems to have a love and desire for them to be saved. Can someone give me not only a biblical answer in context, but also not a watered down answer.
| 2010/12/24 1:31||Profile|
| Re: A question about God's hatred|
Before Repentance You are an Enemy of God, but being a Loving God He offers reconciliation and redemtion to those that want to "switch sides" persay.
I pull this thought from Romans 5:7-8 "7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
HE made a way for us to be friends rather than Enemies. I think once someone is griped with the fact that God is against them, they either repent or in defiance spit in God's face.
| 2010/12/24 1:39||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
We always chiefly speak of God as a God of Love. That is his main characteristic and the emphasis in the word of God. When God revealed His name to Moses he showed the mercy and love in His nature to us. When God revealed Himself in His Son, the humility, love God came forth.
To speak of God hating sin and us being enemies of God are true. But these merely magnify further such love God has in dying for us. What a wondrous Gospel and what a glorious Saviour.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2010/12/24 2:40||Profile|
| Re:hate |
hi, i have been saved for 47 years and i have never been so negative to even think about what God hates.Jesus died for me and saved me and healed me and delivered me with His love.jimp
| 2010/12/24 7:18||Profile|
Logan City, Queensland, Australia
| Re: |
I think the real issue here is that of PROPITIATION: Christ diverting the active wrath of God upon sinners.
Propitiation can best be defined as pacifying wrath by taking care of the penalty for the offence that caused the wrath. Most Christians are sadly ignorant of the subject as most modern Bible translations such as Zondervans New International Version, Tyndales New Living Tranlation, the Revised Standard and the New English Version mix Propitiation with other words such sacrifice, atonement or substitution. Not that these terms are wholly irrelevant; they fail to capture the essence of what propitiation specifically is.
Propitiation rightly presumes that God is not only angry at sin. but that he actually holds people responsible for their sinfulness.
At this point, some may protest by saying Thats not true! God hates the sin but loves the sinner! Truth be told however, the concept of hate the sin, love the sinner comes not from the pages of inspired scripture, but rather the 1929 autobiography of Hindu pacifist Mahatma Ghandi which in turn is a twisting of St Augustines Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly as "With love for mankind and hatred of sins."
Regardless of the quotes origin however, take the time to think it through logically.
When 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Who or what ends up in the Lake of Fire: the action itself or the person responsible for it?
Unless there exists on God's part a genuine anger towards sin, then the concepts of patience, longsuffering, mercy and forgiveness towards mankind are all robbed of their meaning and relevance. Jesus as our Propitiation therefore, would not make any sense.
Still, others will say: Doesnt God love me for who I am? Arent we to come before him just as you are?
While it is true that apart from grace there is nothing we can do to earn or merit Gods favor on our part, this does not mean that God turns a blind eye to our sins as well as the effects it has on ourselves, our neighbor and our environment. If anything, Gods love towards the sinner is centered not upon unconditional acceptance, but rather transformation that leads to adoption:
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Yes, God is Love. And the range of such love is beyond human comprehension to say the least. But even so, such far-reaching love is not promiscuous. Promiscuity throws love around without boundary nor discretion. Gods love on the other hand purposefully seeks to redeem and change individuals. Rather than loving us just as we are, he loves us with the desire that he will make us as he wants us to be, then by his sovereignty working through the power of the Holy Spirit, regenerates us to be the new creation that will respond to such love by faith.
When Jesus called people to respond to his preaching, he did so by declaring Repent or likewise perish (Luke 13:3, 5). But if one still ones wants to to cling on the myth of unmerited acceptance, one has to ask the inevitable question: If God already accepts me just as I am, why do I need to repent? Why do I need to be born again? Why do I need to change?
| 2010/12/24 7:54||Profile|
| Re: |
hi, propitiation means mercy seat but Jesus does not cover our sins He conquered them and took them away.to repent is not to turn from sin and thusly quit sinning ...if you could do that you would not need a saviour.repentence is turning the rule you have over your life to Gods rule and then the life you live is not your life but Christs life living in you.jimp
| 2010/12/24 9:29||Profile|
| Re: |
GOD 'is' Love. No where does it say that "GOD is Love & Hate"
He hates sin because it destroys the world that He created out of Love. His whole purpose for creating mankind was to Love them but He won't force anyone to Love Him in return.
Who would want a Bride that doesn't love the Bridegroom?
He loves His enemies, but they have freewill to refuse His Love and thus not benefit from His Love. He doesn't want any mail-order robot bride. He wants us to love Him by our own choosing - with all our hearts, minds, soul & strength.
I don't think that's asking too much for from a GOD
Who loves His creation so much as to give them a beautiful place to live, stars in the sky, flowers & trees, etc. to show His Love for His creation and then took our own form as a human being, to talk in person and then die for us.
Anyone who can't love a GOD like that - has 'chosen' to not be with Him eternally in Paradise. They prefer satan's nature - hate.
| 2010/12/24 12:21|
| Re: A question about God's hatred|
If we are going to consider all of God's Word we will see that God is most definately love; but He also has wrath toward all that is evil. God could not truly be love if He did not hate that which is evil. Because this is a fallen world we as people often have a wrong view of God's wrath. Most of the anger/wrath we experience here in this world is an unjust, evil anger because we receive it from sinful people. God's love however is not unjust, God's love and His righteousness go hand in hand although we cannot always understand how. Any christian knows he was once a child of wrath, storing it up, because though God made him good he has sought out his own devices. Any christian knows full well he deserved the deepest and most fearful place in hell, because of his great sin against the infinitly good, loving and righteous God.
Knowing what we rightly deserved yet experiencing the new birth of Christ in our hearts will bring great humilty and joy. We cannot tell the lost about God's judgment in a prideful manner, for we ourselves were as them. However warn them still we must, compel them to come in. Futhermore vengence is not ours, but it is the Lord's. Once a preacher said if we want to see how much God loves and yet hates sinners look at the Cross, look at Isaiah 53. What Christ Jesus went through on our behalf, not just physical anguish, but crushed by God, even His soul was anguished. He bore our sins in His body on the tree. This is the only way God can be just the the justifier of the wicked. How amazing is the love of Christ that He would speak life into us to raise us up from our graves and shed abroad His love in our hearts!
| 2010/12/24 14:37||Profile|
| Re: |
For God so loved the world with all of its shortcomings that He gave His only Son who did not come for the righteous but sinners led to repentance.
Yes God hated Essau but who is Essau? Just like the rich man and lazurus who both called Abraham their father, Essau is a son of a founding father of Israel that is an allegory of the church
What God hated about Essau was that he represents the flesh and those within the Body of Christ who follow after the flesh and not the Holy Spirit given unto them, God reserves His wrath and will cast them out.
Same way that He does to the goats that like sheep are both clean animals but only the sheep are chosen.
So many are called and only a few are chosen does not apply to the world of unbelievers who are condemned already but to those in the church who refuse to worship in spirit and in truth
| 2010/12/24 20:04||Profile|
| Re: |
good point Lesser light, thank you for your responses. You helped out a lot on understanding it. I am not trying to be negative but trying to get a true biblical understanding of God's true nature. Thank you for your responses.
| 2010/12/25 1:57||Profile|