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rufnrust
Member



Joined: 2010/1/9
Posts: 242
Indiana

 Re:

Yeah Lisa. It is hard to ignore the pattern but it seems like it happened over and over. Preaching the kingdom of God followed by God healing and delivering the people.

Unfortunately many have adjusted their theology to fit their experience of few if any signs and wonders.Then you will be delivered up to the "Counsel" to explain yourself if you do get healed or something wonderful like that. (sorry)

We are surrounded by diseased, broken, tormented people. We have the "Bread of Heaven" / "Life" that will heal them. Healing and deliverance are "the children's bread" Matt 15:22-28.

Let's focus on the Father's business and feed the multitudes. Watch our God heal and deliver.

By the way, regeneration by the Holy Spirit, being born again, transformed into a new creation, may be the greatest sign and wonder of all. Thanks

Ruf


_________________
Russell

 2010/12/26 14:59Profile
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Jesus specifically gave His Apostles power over the unclean spirits enabling them to do the healing that they did when they did it while Jesus was still on earth. This was different from the power that the church would later exhibit even though the end results were the same

I say that because when they were healing before the crucifixion and resurrection consequently Holy Ghost had not yet been given. Still they were immature with this power as they were not ready to have it by themselves.

We know this to be true because when Jesus was not received by people the Apostles asked "should we bring fire down on them" but Jesus rebuked them (as He often did) and said to them "Ye know not what manner of spirit you are of" (Luke 9: 53-56)

Matthew 10:1
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Mark 6:7
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

Still the fact remains that if the same gospel was being preached today that was preached during the first century we would see the same signs and wonders that the first century church did

Blessings

Doug

 2010/12/26 17:45Profile









 Re:

Our Father in Heaven brought me to a saving knowledge from sin through Jesus Christ when 14 years old. . .praise God!

If that eternal moment came about any later, there is no doubt in this mind that i would have far too much
SELF-dignity
and
SELF-respect
to step out just believing God's promises when i saw what He said do in His Word, and then taking it to the streets by His Spirit's leading.

Many times God has told me to lay hands on another in the name of Jesus and i never sensed anything. . .and neither did the person who was healed. Often, it's been after they have gone to the doctor and given a clean bill of health that they realized what happened that moment.

On the other hand, AFTER following His lead, many times there has been experienced a surge of His 'virtue'.



"For we walk by faith and not by sight" (II Cor. 5.7).



Some think you have to sense or in some way feel God's presence outwardly in order for Him to be present and active to work through us. This is stupid and foolish thinking.

What has been experienced is opposite to this notion.

We do what God says irregardless of anything else
and then we can know His manifest presence present and manifested:

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (II Cor. 4.18).

 2010/12/26 18:35
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: What gospel was preached?


Quote:
Lesserlight wrote:
Jesus specifically gave His Apostles power over the unclean spirits enabling them to do the healing that they did when they did it while Jesus was still on earth. THIS WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE POWER THAT THE CHURCH WOULD LATER EXHIBIT (emphasis by Lisa)

We know this to be true because...


In humble response, we DON’T know this to be true. There is not any Scripture that states the power God used before the upper room was any different than after the upper room. Not one disciple states anything differently either. I’m sorry but this is pure conjecture on your part and we must be careful adding our opinions to Scripture.

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2010/12/26 23:57Profile









 Re:

There is something about hearing instructions from the Almighty and speaking forth what we have heard and then signs follow.

Consider Moses, God instructed him to speak to Pharaoh the word of God and then signs followed.

Jesus spoke the word that God gave to Him and people were healed.

We can't take a dead letter and preach from that, we need to hear from God a clear word, a refreshing word that will ignite faith. God can take a scripture and open it wide open and pull out something we've never seen before and deliver a message that heals the soul and brings life to the hearer.

Jesus spent many a night up all night praying, obtaining instructions as to what God wanted for Him to do each and every day. "My meat is to do the will of my Father".

We need to hear from God.

Those old preachers wouldn't dare stand behind a pulpit until they heard from God. If they didn't hear a word from God they would sing a few hymns and send everyone home.

We need to hear from God.

 2010/12/27 0:01
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Quote:
In humble response, we DON’T know this to be true. There is not any Scripture that states the power God used before the upper room was any different than after the upper room. Not one disciple states anything differently either. I’m sorry but this is pure conjecture on your part and we must be careful adding our opinions to Scripture.



Pure conjecture on my part you say?........ You are way out of line!

Where are your witness for what you charge me with??????????

Jesus had all power over all flesh!!!!

John 17 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given

And he gave it to whomever he wanted to but there is a big difference between eternal life and power over all flesh

Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Mark 6:7
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

Luke 9:1
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

All who have believed on Jesus and have received the Holy Ghost via the blessings of Pentecost have been given the power to become sons of God BUT THEY ARE NOT SONS OF GOD NEITHER DO THEY HAVE THE POWER OF A SON OF GOD!!!

Jesus gave the disciples the powers that he wanted them to have right straight from Him...... Amen?........ I think so

Your power to become a son of God is the Christ seed in you but seeds do not produce fruit......... Seeds properly taken care of and fed the correct food will become trees that if God willing can then produce the works and power of Jesus Christ.

Paul and the others were "born out of due time" that speaks of others yet to come that will walk in the same power that the Apostles did. However without one having the Mind of Christ like the Apostles one does not have the power of Christ and you have absolutely no scripture that proves differently because there are none

Had you PM'd me privately in accordance to Matt 18 I would have responded privately and helped you with what you you still need to learn.

However your charge of pure conjecture on my part is not only wrong but you have not taken the necessary steps of when you accuse someone of being in error to provide two or more witnesses in scripture is a sin ......let alone approach me privately as Jesus said in Matt 18 but just went right ahead with a public accusation of me conjuring up doctrines

Next time do your research first

Doug

 2010/12/27 0:40Profile
rufnrust
Member



Joined: 2010/1/9
Posts: 242
Indiana

 Re:

Wow Doug! Calm down. The Holy Spirit is the One getting the Kingdom works done no matter how we slice it. amen

Ruf


_________________
Russell

 2010/12/27 8:30Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Quote:
By the way, regeneration by the Holy Spirit, being born again, transformed into a new creation, may be the greatest sign and wonder of all. Thanks



@rufnrust

I believe you hit the nail on the head! :) The things which are unseen are eternal and the things seen are temporal. Other miracles are indeed wonderful and to be desired, but this one is the most difficult, profound and has eternal consequences.


_________________
Rick

 2010/12/27 9:18Profile
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re:

Hello Ruf

I am perfectly calm but as the scriptures say little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump.

The church is a lump that is in the condition that it is in because of the lack of truth and all the false doctrines that have been taught since the last of the Apostles were removed from the scene some 1900 years ago

However in an open forum there is going to be discussions between people not in agreement consequently God gave us ways for determining the truth that need to be adhered to so that in the end we may all become in one accord and in harmony with God.

Healthy discussions even in the face of dissent that reveal the truth can be laborious when they become repetitive but if in the end the unlearned become learned then there is a blessing and patience sees its perfect work.

However accusations of conjecturing up false doctrines is never to be an open discussion ...... at least not from the get until after a considerable amount of effort has been made to correct the person in error without any fruit coming forth.

Thinking that the apostles were/are no different than your status quo Christian baptized in the Holy Spirit is not just totally false doctrine but will prohibit the marriage between God and the church. Not that the christians have not been given a way to become as they were but first the truth has to be taught if sin is to be overcome.

Daniel prophesied of the time when the truth would start to be taught (Dan 12:3,4) just as Paul spoke of a time that when after the falling away there would be gathering that would come to worship in spirit and in truth......... that time is now.

I understand there is going to be dissent within discussion....... after all everyone has a send button on their computer.

However accusations need to be kept in check or the church will descend into anarchy. Unfortunately there are times when accusations are true but they need to be approached and handled in accordance to scripture.

Not only was my accuser wrong in her doctrine and in her accusation but did not even attempt to support anything she said by the Word of God that without respect persons holds everyone equally accountable.

That is one of the reason why we do not see people dropping dead in the church. However beware people are still dying because of false accusation of doctrines that are true........ I have seen that happen twice in the last five years alone and one of them had been a mentor of mine before he fell seriously in error before the Lord over an accusation of someone conjuring up false doctrines.

So it is not for Lysa's discomfort that she be corrected but for her benefit.

Blessings

Doug

 2010/12/27 9:51Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: What gospel was preached?


Lesserlight,

Perhaps we are having a failure to communicate other over something else because I didn’t say anything negative about Jesus and his power because it is the same yesterday, today and forever...

What I said was pure conjecture on your part was here when you stated that the power was different:

Quote:
THIS WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE POWER THAT THE CHURCH WOULD LATER EXHIBIT (emphasis by Lisa)


Brother in the Lord, I did do my research and I cannot find any Scripture that supports your above statement that what the disciples did (power wise) PRE-Pentecost was a different type of power than POST-Pentecost, Greek-wise or Scripture wise.

I know this could boil down to be a mere difference of opinion and even though I still stand by my first post, it truly was not my intention to wholly alienate you. Please forgive me.

God bless you, Doug,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2010/12/27 10:14Profile





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