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Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111

 revival or apostasy?

The current situation in churches here in sweden is going deeper into apostasy.
First came the faith movement but it did not fool so many.
because they (wof) denied the deity of christ.
so now comes the next wave the emerging church and warrens purpose gosel are splitting churches all over.
I saw even this in other countries i lived in before i moved to sweden.
same things faith movement and then emerging church.
also prophetic movement.
this time its different the churches are swallowing it.

what we see infront of our eyes is the greet apostasy that the bible predicts.
paul talked about hard time in the last days.
people will follow men and not christ.
Jesus said it will be like the days of noah.
maybe that means few rightouess people left.
what I even see happens is that now many of thoose that are standing up for the true gospel are talking about revivals and speaks on revival conferences.
and even people in here are spending money traveling there to listen.
I am sorry my friends I do not belive in that.
the bible speaks the oposit in the last days there will be apostasy otherwise jesus would not have to come back to restore it all. as long as the light is here the anti christ will not appear fully.
its a waste of time going on such conferences.
I notice really the hard times now
many fall into the ditch of exposing all false doctrines or false prophets and spending all their time doing that.
I can tell you you wont have time for that because they are too many.
some fall into the ditch of spending their time going to revival conferences, some spend their time listen to much to thoose we call prophets or reformatorist.
"now this and this will happen year 2010 in february".
and sure we listen to it because they are famous and they got many preachings here uploaded on sermonindex.
then we find out nothing happend and that preacher was wrong.
and yet we stick on to them and say.
they preach like spurgeon or ravenhill.
well we ought to preach like christ.
not like spurgeon or ravenhill.
they might say some truths but all the truths we need are in the bible.
Jesus did not preach the gospel like that.
he preached against religion and he preached freedom
from religion and sin. but also he was humble and gentle in his heart. I cant find him yelling at the pharisees even though he spoke the truth he did not yell at them or raise his voice to them.

I heard a famous calvinist preacher in our days saying
"we read and obey".
well that creates legalism and servant of the law.
the truth is we read and we see that its impossible to obey.
then God will give us grace and change us so that
what ever we do we do it by heart.
reading and trying to obey will create a bunch of legalists.
and god hates that.
he wants to deliver his people from sin and legalismn not to put burdens upon them.
so dear brethren stay alert to any preacher what so ever ( included me)
I am just talking out from on experience

 2010/12/19 9:07Profile

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175

 Re: revival or apostasy?

I don't know if many will agree, but I like a good portion (if not all) of what you're saying.

 2010/12/19 9:51Profile

 Re: revival or apostasy?

First came the faith movement but it did not fool so many. because they (wof) denied the deity of Christ.

Must have been a different branch of the Word of Faith, the one's that I knew and the one that I was caught up in all hailed that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but God Himself and calling Him Lord and Saviour believing that there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved. I have to give them credit for retaining some truths.

 2010/12/19 10:10

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3502


I have heard a lot of criticism concerning the Faith movement and rightly so because faith was used for personal gain and not for the purposes that God intented.

However, there was a need for faith teaching, for without faith it is impossible to please God. As Christians we are to walk by faith and not by sight. It is vitally important that every Christian have a understanding of faith and that we are exercising our faith. I have never heard any of the faith teachers deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Perhaps one of the most grievious errors in the faith teaching is that Jesus died spiritually.

I believe that God raised up men to teach faith to the Body of Christ, but some of them perverted the teaching by the misuse of faith.



 2010/12/19 10:39Profile

  revival or apostasy?....I say BOTH together...Wheat and TARES.

Josef83: I really liked the spirit of your letter. I think you are seeing something important ; and that is the simplicity of the gospel, along with a simple devotion to Jesus.

The sign of the last days is Apostasy, not Revival...but I read this morning, about how the Lord promised that He would shorten the days...SHORTEN TIME! in the last days, because of HIS ELECT. Yes, apostasy is here, and I agree with every class you have named as a part of it...But, so is God, and His favor for His elect is overwhelming.

As the dark grows darker, and deceivers emerge, the light of Heaven grows brighter within the saints. I am so encouraged to hear believers like you across the world, see exactly the same things as we see here. It is shocking a little, as we see these last days unfold.

You are appealing to the virgins to be wise, and not foolish, and stumble into a ditch before His return. Keep it rings of truth....Tom

 2010/12/19 10:40

Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re: revival or apostasy?....I say BOTH together...Wheat and TARES.

Hey brother I love what your saying and the main part of what your saying I agree on. I don't know if we know the tone of how Jesus spoke, but Matthew chapter 23 shows I think a Jesus who spoke very hard against the Pharisees. But brother I liked the post.

John Beechy

 2010/12/19 12:31Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re: revival or apostasy?

Josef83 said, "they might say some truths but all the truths we need are in the bible."

Your post was refreshing. Thank you for sharing your views, they are very much in line with mine.

white stone


 2010/12/19 12:58Profile

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3502


There are two great truths that will take place in the end times simultaneously, and that is that there will be a great falling away, and that God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. There are many scriptures that support both an endtime harvest and the great falling away.

This web sight is all about praying for a God sent revival.

"The mission of SermonIndex is the preservation and propagation of classical vintage preaching and the promotion of genuine biblical revival to this generation.'

The work and ministry of sermonindex can be encapsulated in this one word: Revival. Sermonindex is not an organization, business, or any attempt by man to build something for God. It is rather a expression of a heart burden to see the Church revived and brought back to holiness, purity, and power with God. The main thrust of the speakers and articles on the website are towards an 'apostolic' vision of the church of God found in Holy Scriptures. This biblical balanced Christianity is something needed in contrast to our modern day commercial, superficial, cultural Christianity. The desire for a spiritual awakening is in hopes that it will restore this original apostolic church in this world as a better expression of what the Church should be."



 2010/12/19 14:42Profile


I believe that the apostacy has already taken place. We are in the midst of the great falling away. Lawlessness abounds. What do I mean by lawlessness? Well,if I go to a lawless country where there is anarchy, that means that everyone is a law unto themselves. They do what is right according to their own hearts.

Given the numbers that we have read recently, whether it is from Barna or other sources, we see a majority of Evangelicals believe that " good,' people get to heaven and in their hearts believe that there are many roads to heaven.

People have made Jesus their Saviour, but not their Lord. In fact I was taught at a Baptist seminary that to say that Jesus must be the Lord of our lives was to add a " work," to my salvation.

Growing up as a Catholic in Scotland, American Catholics were frowned upon because they were " Cafateria Catholics," meaning that they took what they liked and left the rest. So much of Evangelicalism has went the same way. In the countries of Britain, inclusing Wales and Scotland and Ireland, less that one quarter of one per-cent are born-again Christians. These numbers are no better in other European countries. A great falling away? Certainly. Now, America looks different, especially to Europeans, but a close examination may yield surprising results. In any number of categories, including divorce, the numbers amongst the professing American church and the " world,' are no different.

And so, what kind of " revival," should we expect to see in these ever darkening days of lawlessness? I believe that God will revive and sustain His own remnant people, His own witnesses in the earth. Only by Gods people being alive and on fire for Him is there any hope for those who dwell in darkness. Those who stand, unyieldingly and without compromise upon the truth and are filled with His love will come under increasing persecution. Yet God will pour our His Spirit on such believers. He will equip those He Frank

 2010/12/19 14:42

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re: revival or apostasy?

Good post Josef83.

(quote)we stick on to them and say. they preach like spurgeon or ravenhill. well we ought to preach like christ.
not like spurgeon or ravenhill. they might say some truths but all the truths we need are in the bible(quote)

We cannot deny that God uses such men and their messages to awaken/revive his people from time to time. However lately I have been wondering, when does admiring such men and their messages/sermons become idolatry in the heart? It seems there is a fine line here and many if not all of us are guilty to one degree or another.

With regard to revival, who can deny the reality of past revivals such as the reformation and great awakening and the men God used in such times? However in these days it seems to me that God has been reviving His people more on an individual basis, slowly one by one and little by little, rather than collectively or massively.

Many of us are unwilling to rethink our set ways/beliefs concerning what is authentic Christianity. The examples of Christ set forth in the Gospels, the book of Acts and first century Christianity are too radical for us to learn from and apply. We brush it all off as being antiquated and culturally irrelevant for today.

Yet God is slowly but surely reviving/awakening a people for Himself, a remnant who are tired of all the compromise and lukewarmness they see all around them. These are those who are willing to follow Christ outside the camp of conventional mainstream traditional Christianity(Hebrews 13:13); They see too much apostasy and compromise within this "church" and hunger for the real thing.


 2010/12/19 14:56Profile

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