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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632

 Leaving the Prophetic Movement Pt.2 (A. Strom)


"NAMING NAMES?" - by Andrew Strom.

I guess you will not be surprised to hear that I was flooded with 600
emails within 24 hours of my announcement that I was leaving the
Prophetic movement. Many of them seemed to be highly supportive
of the stand I had taken. (-A lot of people have seen alarming
things in this movement). But I'm sure I will receive a lot of flak also.

For many years, even when I was truly disturbed by something
I usually avoided "naming names" as much as possible. I do not
approve of the 'Heresy Hunters' who seem to take such delight
in maligning Spirit-filled ministries across the Internet. There is
no delight in such things for me. Only grief and sadness that the
name of Jesus is once again being brought down into the mud.
We live in very sad times in the church today, don't we?

After my previous article, many people asked me again to "name
names" and announce clearly who the leaders were at this
conference - even though that info was already at the top of my
first email. For this one time, I am actually going to accede to
their request - because we need to clear the air about these
leaders and also a number of others as well. But I have to tell
you, I have been totally heart-sick at having to talk about all this.

The speakers at this KC 'Whitedove' Conference were Bob Jones,
Paul Keith Davis, Bobby Conner, John Paul Jackson, Shawn Bolz -
plus Jim Goll and one or two others. Sadly, I have to say that I
have rarely felt so grieved or devastated as when I witnessed the
carryings-on at this event. If you get the 'Elijah' List (-the main
Prophetic email List) you will recognize most of the names above
as being amongst the top "movers and shakers" of the whole movement.

A number of people asked me about Rick Joyner and Morningstar
Ministries. Where do they fit into all this? Well, seemingly Rick
has always managed to keep himself at a slight distance from the
worst excesses and controversies of this movement. (-Except for
when he joined the Knights of Malta - an ancient Catholic Order.
-By the way, that is probably what led to the fad of using swords
to 'knight' people that swept through this movement a few years
ago). I have read some of Joyner's books and enjoy some of the
things he says, but frankly, just because he has kept himself at a
slight distance does not absolve him from the mess that the
Prophetic is in today. The fact is, Mr Joyner is very close friends
with almost all of the main leaders at this recent conference. He
regularly ministers alongside them - and knows them very well. As
a 'father' in the movement, if he had brought correction it would have
been heeded, but he has clearly failed to do so. Thus, he has to be
held accountable for the state of things as much as anyone else.
And it would not surprise me if similar deception is finding it's way
into Morningstar conferences. (-A number of the same people are
involved). Sadly then, I have had to remove any articles or links
to Rick Joyner from my web-site - along with all the others.

And speaking of the sad and grievous state of this movement, I
wonder how many of you received the following notice from the
Elijah List recently about a forthcoming 'School of the Prophets':
"God is releasing a new level of revelation that goes beyond just
operating in the nine gifts of the Spirit." [Pardon me?? -ed.]
"Sessions will cover topics like Hearing the Voice of God, Activating
your Spiritual Senses, Third Heaven Experiences, and Exploring
Spirit Realms." The advertised speakers are Todd Bentley, Stacey
Campbell, Larry Randolph, Paul Keith Davis, and Bobby Conner.

Now, I have come across Todd Bentley's teachings on "How to visit
the Third Heaven" before, and I tell you, it is nothing less than
'Guided Visualization' taken straight out of the New Age movement.
Nothing less and nothing more. It is exactly the same. And I want
you to know that if you attend these kinds of things, or allow these
men to 'guide' you or lay hands upon you, then you are opening
yourself up to all kinds of spirits and demonic counterfeits. As I have
stated before, this movement has absolutely NO DISCERNMENT at
all. It has sunk into such deception that it's leaders are opening
people up to all kinds of demonic experiences on a daily basis. It
has no idea that it is even doing it. -It behaves exactly like a
movement that has been "given over to deception" by God. I urge
again that everyone reading this would prayerfully consider CUTTING
OFF all ties to this movement, lest you yourself become tainted by it.

It is with great sadness that I make the above points. I have
refrained from saying such things in the past, but I can no longer
do so, because untold people are being spiritually damaged by
what is going on. Please understand my heart in this.

For the same reason I also need to warn you about another
'prophetess' who is often featured on the Elijah List. Her name is
Jill Austin and I have personally witnessed her ministry in action.
I would describe it as one of the most disturbing (by far) meetings
that I have ever been in. There was definitely a strange "power"
operating, but it certainly did not seem like God to me. She is also
an expert at 'hyping' an audience. Please be very careful in such
environments, my friends. -You can end up taking part in things that
you would never normally do, just because you are part of a large crowd.

Sadly, there seem to be many other ministries in this movement
involved in similar deception. In fact, I hate to say it, but a general
rule might be that if someone is featured on the Elijah List, there
has to be at least an 80% chance that their ministry is "off" in some
major way. I will say just one more thing about the Elijah List: I am
convinced that they will one day give account to God for taking upon
themselves the name "Elijah" and then doing what they have done
with it. Literally, by their own words they will be judged.


What a lot of people don't seem to recognize is the sheer level of
'peer pressure' and "crowd manipulation" that is going on at many
of these events. They end up being led into doing things they feel
uncomfortable with, just because "everybody else" is doing it. They
squash down their discernment. They ignore the "little voice" or the
tiny 'alarm bells' inside them that are trying to get their attention.
And thus, multitudes of Christians are being led astray - and paying
through the nose for the privilege. I urge anyone reading this who
has ever squashed down their discernment and participated in such
things, to get before God and REPENT of opening yourself up in
that way. It is very important that you confess this before God and
ask His forgiveness. RENOUNCE all deception in Jesus' name.

One thing we don't have much time to discuss here is the MONEY
issue. This is a huge problem in the Prophetic. Now, I do understand
that ministries need finances to operate. I run a ministry myself. And
as most of you know, about 5 times a year we put out a book or CD
(available for any donation - or even just postage) to go towards the
costs of keeping this ministry operating. However, the word itself is
always free. It is terribly sad to see the charging of 'entry fees' to
hear the word today, and the over-bearing emphasis on MONEY in
the church. Did not Jesus clearly command: "Freely you have
received, freely give"?

Redefining "PROPHET"

Just because I have cut myself off from today's Prophetic movement
does not mean that I believe there is no place for prophets in the
church. In fact, I believe we need true prophets now more than ever.
But you will notice that there has been a subtle shift in the use of
the term "prophet" over the last 25 years, and I believe we need to
get back to the original meaning. It was not long ago that when you
spoke of a 'prophet' you were usually referring to someone like Keith
Green, Leonard Ravenhill or David Wilkerson - someone who was
crying out to the lukewarm church, "REPENT." And if you look
down the annals of history, you will find that there has never been
a true Prophetic movement that did not have this as it's core
message. Every true Prophetic movement, right from the Old
Testament down through every Revival and Awakening that I have
ever studied, has been a movement of REPENTANCE. And yet we
find today a movement that calls itself "Prophetic" - but with spiritual
'revelations' and words of knowledge at its core. -No piercing word.
This is the precise reason why it has gone off the rails. -It has
abandoned it's age-old message. It's 'word' has been corrupted.

I am convinced that God IS going to raise up true prophets in this
hour to cry to the lukewarm church "Repent". There is a movement
coming that is utterly different from that which we have seen. God
is coming to clean house. The "shaking" has already begun. And
the "John-the-Baptists" whom God has prepared in the caves and
wildernesses are about to arise and speak His word - just as in
every Great Awakening down through history.

Some people asked me if I was going to shut down our web-sites
and email Lists. Not at all. The whole point of what we're doing is
to call forth and encourage these "John-the-Baptists" whom God is
raising up in this hour. We will not stop crying aloud until we see a
great 'Repentance' Revival sweeping this nation from coast to coast.

As A.W. Tozer wrote of all true prophets down the ages:
"God has always had His specialists whose chief concern has been
the moral breakdown, the decline in the spiritual health of the nation
or the church. Such men were Elijah, Jeremiah, Malachi and others
of their kind who appeared at critical moments in history to reprove,
rebuke and exhort in the name of God and righteousness... Such a
man was likely to be drastic, radical, possibly at times violent, and
the curious crowd that gathered to watch him work soon branded him
as extreme, fanatical, negative. And in a sense they were right. He
was single-minded, severe, fearless, and these were the qualities
the circumstances demanded. He shocked some, frightened others
and alienated not a few, but he knew who had called him and what he
was sent to do. His ministry was geared to the emergency, and that
fact marked him out as different, a man apart."

To give us feedback on this article, please write to:

An extra big THANKYOU to those who have been praying for us
during this sad time. Truly appreciated, my friends.

God bless you all.

Kindest regards in Christ,

Andrew Strom.


 2004/11/8 21:18Profile

Joined: 2004/6/6
Posts: 140
Arizona, USA

 Re: Leaving the Prophetic Movement Pt.2 (A. Strom)

Thank you, Chanin!

Andrew Strom has written well. This will be forwarded many times, I'm sure.

My husband read from Lamentations on Sunday and my eye was drawn to 2:14--

"Your prophets have seen for you false and foolish visions; And they have not exposed your iniquity so as to restore you from captivity, but they have seen for you false and misleading oracles."

Mrs. Fred

Mrs. Fred

 2004/11/8 23:06Profile

Joined: 2004/11/8
Posts: 5
Illinois, USA

 Re:leaving the Prohpetic Movement

We need to look into the Word for the guidelines of how to know if someone is a true prophet. All through the Old Testament and in the New Testament a sign was given by the prophets as proof of their hearing from G-d. Even the disciples ask Jesus for a sign, which he gave them.

G-d have placed an order and authority in the church, but we have left that order. Just as most have left the G-d given order for the family. [Father is the head, Mother is to submit, then the children are to obey] The order for the church the 5- fold ministry. We need all five offices, the church has repeatedly gone to seed with each seed as it became a 'fad'. The office of the prophet is no different. G-d will bring forth His Apostles who will set up the governments of the church. We've proved over and over again in the church community that we need governing.

Donna Deckard

 2004/11/9 8:17Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA


Asking for prayers for Andrew and all that are invovled. May the Lord give wisdom.

Mike Balog

 2004/11/9 9:58Profile

Joined: 2004/6/6
Posts: 140
Arizona, USA


G-d will bring forth His Apostles who will set up the governments of the church. We've proved over and over again in the church community that we need governing.

Hello Diane,

I have deep concerns with this line of thinking. Down through the centuries men have appointed themselves leaders in various churches, movements, etc. and 'proved' they were 'from God', appointed by God. Yet their fruit was death, destruction, confusion, and most importantly, CONTROL over other people's lives. First mildly, then increasing, until the most horrendous sins take place and nobody blinks an eye.

This violates all of the Sermon on the Mount and the testimony of Jesus! We are FREE, dear sister, free to choose to enslave ourselves to One, and only One --- the True and Living God who made us.

Yes, we are to be godly wives and mothers, law-abiding citizens of our nations, and support those who lead our congregations. We are to walk in humility and brokenness before God, together with all the saints, just as the holy people of God have always done, whether they were apostles, teachers, single women, married women, children, or slaves. Look closely at the lives of the apostles --- none of them had ANYTHING. None of them promoted themselves -- the exact opposite. They were too busy being persecuted and giving everything to their spiritual offspring!

The minute somebody says 'I'm an apostle / prophet / healer etc. and you'd better listen to me because I speak for God', then I'm out the door. It's a one-man show.

Mrs. Fred

Mrs. Fred

 2004/11/9 10:43Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37182
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Asking for prayers for Andrew and all that are invovled. May the Lord give wisdom.

Yes I would request that prayers be made for Andrew Strom specifically that he would have wisdom from above in these matters. Also that he would strive after God and Him alone, not the approval of men or ministries.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/11/9 11:07Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


s I would request that prayers be made for Andrew Strom specifically that he would have wisdom from above in these matters. Also that he would strive after God and Him alone, not the approval of men or ministries.

Amen! With the latest developments this could be a very critical time. I add my agreement in prayer.

Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/9 11:12Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA


G-d will bring forth His Apostles who will set up the governments of the church. We've proved over and over again in the church community that we need governing.

I have to agree with mrs. fred that this line of thinking is dangerous. Is Jesus the foundation of the church or are these modern day apostles?

(1 Corinthians 3:11) [i] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.[/i]

True Christianity and the real Church will never change their shape. Our Lord promised that He would build His Church and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. If Christianity and the Church are changed, then the gates of hell have prevailed and our Lord was wrong.

Isn't this some of the same type of heresey that the Roman Catholic church has fallen into by saying that the church is founded upon Peter?

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2004/11/9 11:16Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


Quote: G-d will bring forth His Apostles who will set up the governments of the church. We've proved over and over again in the church community that we need governing.

Inthelight wrote; I have to agree with mrs. fred that this line of thinking is dangerous. Is Jesus the foundation of the church or are these modern day apostles?

This is the underlying eschatology that I find so disturbing. This is just another version of Latter Rain/Manifested Son/Omega Man. It claims that some contemporary phenomena is the precursor of the final harvest; it has no basis in scripture.

Ron Bailey

 2004/11/9 11:31Profile

Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632

 Re: for the record

Just wanted to make sure this was clear. The statement that Mrs. Fred is talking about was made by "Donna" (Avigayil) and not Dian (spitfire). Didn't want any confusion there.

In Him, Chanin


 2004/11/9 11:53Profile

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