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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The First Judgement Comes.

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Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 The First Judgement Comes.

Quote:
by Oracio on 2010/12/10 9:53:13

Erendel, I understand what you are saying and I agree that we need to be careful on how we speak of the Holy Spirit's operations in us.
However, after considering Ephesians 5:18 some more, it seems that a sound interpretation of it would force us to take Paul as saying in essence, "instead of being drunk and filled with wine, be filled with the Spirit of God.



There are some Christians that will argue that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is like getting drunk, and they take scripture out of context. So in a spirit of gentleness I respond:

Ephesians 5:18 (New King James Version)
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,

I believe what the Apostle is saying is:

Instead of getting drunk with wine and indulging the senses, rather to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Here's why...

Look at the reasons why people indulge the flesh in the first place, is it not to fill something that is lacking in the soul? Is it not to make one feel better, to give one a sense of well being? Is it not to give one a sense of joy and happiness and completeness? Is this not the reason why people drink to get drunk in the first place, to numb, to make one feel better?

I believe Paul is saying that God can and will give us all of these things. Be filled the Holy Spirit and no longer get drunk with wine.


The Spirit of God (Holy Ghost) is as natural to the human body as the hair on your head. And this is what we were created for...Are not our bodies called the "Temple of the living God"?

I believe Adam walked with God, where his body was filled with God's Spirit - there was a communion there. God's Spirit filled a part of Adam that completed him (Shekhinah), that made him a living temple of God.

Adam lost this when he, through transgression, fell. The Shekhinah Glory of God lifted from Adam, the same way that the Shekhinah Glory of God lifted from the Jewish Temple (the physical one before it was destroyed in 70 AD).

Since the fall of Adam, our race has sought to fill "that missing part" that incompleteness, by indulging in the senses of the flesh. And without the Light of God (the Holy Spirit, who was, and now is the majestic presence or manifestation of God in man) man would grow exceeding dark and sinful, for without light, there can only be darkness.

...but we are no longer in darkness (that is to say without the Holy Ghost), that we should indulge the senses with all manner of uncleanness.

Ephesians 5:8 " For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light"

This indwelling Shekhinah presence of God in His temple is something that was always meant for man, we were created for this purpose - we are (that is our bodies) "living temples" of the Holy Spirit of God.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Why?

because: Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

It is therefore wise as Christians and prudent too, to avoid worldly connotations (descriptives) when describing the indwelling Shekhinah presence, the glory of God in us, His temple.

The Apostle Paul was not likening the infilling of the Holy Ghost with drunkenness, but rather a turning away from the works of darkness, which is in the indulging the senses with sinful practices and uncleanness before God, and to be filled with the Holy Ghost who completes us, fills that void in our souls.

Not sinful drunkenness, but Holy Communion and completion.

I remember one night when I was a young man, and I shall never forget it, when after fervent prayer before the Lord... All at once, like a mighty bolt of lightning it came...the most powerful witness of the Holy Spirit that I have ever had to that point. The power of God fell upon me in such a way that I was barely able to stand upon my feet.

The Shekinah Glory of God fell upon me that night, and nearly knocked me off my feet. But the Lord allowed me to stand up under it, and I was barely able to contain it. Had the witness been any more powerful than it was, I would have been knocked out by the power.

The presence of God's Holy Spirit is awesome, I describe His witness as follows: A sweet fragrance like that of sweet spice or flowers, accompanied by joy unspeakable and full of glory, accompanied by great peace that floods my soul like a river, a great calm, a true sense of acceptance and well-being and contentment. I could feel His Love on me like a garment, and as a presence that I could feel and sense, like a bright light shining on me.

The experience on my senses that the Holy Spirit brings are incredible and indescribable.

...God encountered me that night in prayer, and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced!


_________________
David

 2010/12/3 11:39Profile
sonsigns
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 200
Brumley Missouri

 Re: The First Judgement Comes.

Very good.

you said in your post "Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?

here is your answer- Look in Acts chapter 2 verse 13.

Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.

I really don't like the word believer when talking about saints of God or christians, because if you ask anyone if they believe they are a Christian they will more than likely say yes. Everyone is a believer.

It is a tragic thing to be judged. Think about this, after judment comes to the house of the Lord first and it will, I believe that the "remnant of Christians" will evangelize over half of the worlds population before the rapture of the church. This will be done in a small amount of time. maybe in a year or two.

Proverbs says "they that win souls are wise." Are you out winning souls for Christ?


_________________
William Cato

 2010/12/9 0:09Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.



~~~

I know what the book of Acts says, but the Apostles never went around saying they were drunk in the Spirit when the Holy Ghost was upon them...ever! Drunkenness conjures up thoughts of immoral practice that God has said is a sin, so why would the Christian refer to the anointing as such? ...just to appease those who are carnal and in the flesh?

There is a separation between the carnal world and life in Jesus Christ; I cannot do the things I used to do, and that includes getting drunk among other things. So why pander to the flesh at all and call the Holy Spirit drunkenness?


~~~


Quote:
Think about this, after judment comes to the house of the Lord first and it will, I believe that the "remnant of Christians" will evangelize over half of the worlds population before the rapture of the church. This will be done in a small amount of time. maybe in a year or two.



This is correct, there is a remnant. Only a remnant will be left after judgment, but these shall rebuild the walls of that Grand Old Mansion, the Temple of God who we are.

I had a vision of this very thing...

recorded here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31212&forum=48&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0


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David

 2010/12/9 0:35Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Time to temper the mortar..

Time to temper the mortar...

Again, I shared this in another thread, but it is appropriate here as well.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, but it certainly not the end of it. I would rather set a heart on fire in love for God, then to cower before Him as many will obviously do who are not saved, when they have to stand before Him.

Romans 8:20-21 (New King James Version)

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

...delivered from fear too and those who propagate it with a false gospel, like the Roman Catholics. The gospel is good news, not bad news!

Hear the words of the Apostle John:

John 4:17-19 (New King James Version)

The Consummation of Love

17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness (THAT WE MAY BOLDNESS) in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love (THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE); but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

I would rather set your heart on fire for Him in love as a zealot ...as a glorious child of God, then to cause you to fear Him in torment. If you have ever been touched by the Holy Ghost, then you know exactly what I am talking about - you will love Him with a burning and unquenchable indescribable love. You will cleave to Him and absolutely hate the things that He hates and you will love the things that he loves, and what breaks His heart will break yours as well.

Sometimes fear is a necessary tool, I agree, (and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God when you are not saved) but remember to temper the mortar, that is to say: temper judgment with His mercy and with the love of God that leads us to repentance, which does not cause me to fear but to love Him.(fruits)

Fear to the disobedient, but love, joy, and peace to the elect of God - to those that are truly born again. And oh what a glorious joy it is to come before the Lord! (think David dancing with all of his might)


When The Oil Flows

You are my friends if you obey me. I no longer call you servants, because a master doesn’t confide in his servants. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. John 15.14,15 Jesus called His disciples His friends…who became the Apostles…elect members of the Bride.

Consider the parable of the ten virgins…(all the virgins believe in Christ, but are not the same before God)
The oil in the lamps has to do with the inner workings of the Holy Spirit (Oil) in a person’s life.

One person seeks the presence of God inwardly, while another stays worldly/carnal and does not grow. One person will never deny the Lord Jesus Christ, while another will say nothing about being a Christian publicly. One person will seek the presence of God inwardly, while another pushes it away and goes about works as a way to gain God’s favor...much like Cain did when he offered grain before God, and not like Abel who pursued the heart of God with love.

But a city that is set upon a hill cannot be hid.

Be zealous for God in all things, and let your heart burn in love for Him with a holy fervor in love. I have found when I apply this oil to my life that I find myself being very much in Love with the Author of my being. And because of that, how can I not love my brother when I see God in him, when it is God that I am in love with. 1 John 4:20 So even if my brother differs from me in understanding, I still love God in him…and will endeavor to treat him with respect as one who has my Father’s image.

Love comes from the Holy Spirit, and when this Oil Flows, my lamp is always full of oil at ALL times, night or day and at any hour. And if a person does this, they will not be numbered among the foolish virgins who did not keep oil in their lamps.

So to keep my lamp full, I will ask God to give me the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) so that I will always stay in love with God, full of faith, good works and of the Holy Spirit, and endeavor to keep the unity of the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Holy Spirit come, in brightness of your coming, and in truth. Fill our lamps with oil, so that we may see in the dark. Break the bonds of sin in us your children, and let us see with perfect light, with the oil that you have given us in our lamps. Let my heart love you in depths of my being, to core of who I am forever and ever. Amen.

Father, take not your Holy Spirit from me and forgive me for my trespasses, and let me love you with perfect love in my soul, and let me show this love in everything, everything that I do. Let my life be seasoned with salt, and let the sweet smelling savor of my Lord Jesus be within me, and fill me completely, till I come into the image of my Lord whom I love.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ that has so captured my heart! Wow, and what a glorious gospel it is!


James 5:16 (New King James Version)
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.


_________________
David

 2010/12/9 1:01Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1259
Long Beach CA USA

 Re: Time to temper the mortar..

Erendel, thanks for sharing. I personally don't like referring to the filling of the Spirit as being drunk in the Spirit. But technically and Biblically some can make a case of that terminology from Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit." It does seem to me that Paul is comparing the Spirit's filling with drunkeness there. Just a thought.


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Oracio Sandoval

 2010/12/9 1:49Profile
sonsigns
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 200
Brumley Missouri

 Re: Are you a Lamp post in the darkness?

Back in 1991 the Lord gave me an open eye vision that lasted about 1 or 2 minutes. It was a vision concerning last things. Particullary the Harvest.

The Lord won't allow me to post it here. But he has released me to tell you a portion. You see after the Lord gave me this vision, he had me send it out to a hand full of ministries.

I heard back from only 1 and that was Carol Hayden. She compared it to Tommy Hicks end time vision. I listen to a cassett tape that she recorded for me, I didn't even know who Tommy Hicks was. I live in central Missouri and carol lives in SouthBend Indiana.

After I sent the Vision to these ministries the Lord told me that he wanted me to teach the things in the vision but, to hold the vision for a time.

Here is what the Lord is allowing me to share.

In this vision, the Lord showed me a remnant of saints and he showed me backslidders in the faith and those whom never heard the word of God.

The Lord open my eyes to the backslidden and I saw there spirit. they look like cancer patients. Boney and sunken in. The same was true for those whom never heard the word of God. Except there spirits were dark and there eyes were sunken in to there sockets and a black film was covering them.

The saints were preaching the word in the streets, allies ways on the byways, house to house and one on one. In the country and rural areas. the saints moved fast they seemed to be walking on the air.

Then I seen the Lost souls of this world recieving the word of God. There spirits suddenly became full of life and bright , white as snow. There was glow on there outward body and they began moving with great annointings from God.

There are many things that I would like to share here. As I said the Lord will not allow me to release it.








_________________
William Cato

 2010/12/9 12:13Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
by Oracio on 2010/12/8 20:49:03

Erendel, thanks for sharing. I personally don't like referring to the filling of the Spirit as being drunk in the Spirit. But technically and Biblically some can make a case of that terminology from Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit." It does seem to me that Paul is comparing the Spirit's filling with drunkeness there. Just a thought.




Drunkenness is NOT implied Oracio.

There is an infilling of joy and glory that the Holy Spirit gives, a sense of well-being, peace, calm(some call it a holy hush), all rolled up into one - a communion with Him if you will.

In the presence of God there is a sense of overwhelming Joy (and you do feel it), The Apostle Peter says:

American King James Version
Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1 Peter 1:8

The Apostle Paul says:
Romans 14:17 (New King James Version)
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and (peace and joy in the Holy Spirit).

2 Corinthians 13:14 (New King James Version)
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the (communion of the Holy Spirit) be with you all. Amen.

Acts 13:52 (New King James Version)
And the disciples were (filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.)

My own experience with the Holy Ghost I recorded:

After a period of deep repentance, Godly sorrow, and turning back to God (as I was a prodigal)...

It was summertime, in the cool of the evening when I was alone in my garden. It happened while I was on my knees digging around the raspberry bushes, while in prayer before the Lord.

I was overshadowed by the Presence of the Spirit of God.

In that moment I felt His deep love rest upon me... an indiscrible release and rapture in my spirit, accompanied by a peace and a joy unspeakable(full of glory) that only comes from the Holy Spirit...it felt as if my innocence was completely returned to me in that moment before God, and indeed it was, as the Blood of the Lamb was sprinkled over my sins.

It was in that moment, while the Spirit of God was upon me, that I humbly looked up into heaven and I worshipped Him who made the Heavens and the Earth. It was in that moment that I decided that I would love the God of heaven forever...I decided this, and I told Him so.

In that moment I understood the beauty of the Lord, His magnificence and His majesty; I felt my soul knit to the Lord. My soul loves Him above all else in this life, for He is my lot and my portion forever.

In that moment I understood Him in the depths of my spirit; I cried out to the one who formed me from the dust of the Earth and I said to Him...I will love you in my heart forever! I made my abode with Him, and He came into my heart and He made His abode with me.

My mind is continually upon Him...His anointing remains with me. I feel His Spirit continually drawing me...and my heart is tender and loves Him above anything else in this world. It is hard to put such things into words because these things are Spirit. I love Him in my very soul; in the very center of my being...I cannot explain it. I extol Him above all things as standing before Him.

I yield to your Spirit Lord Jesus, that I should love you in this way. I desire you above the love of women; my soul yearns and thirsts for you; I am born of you. I choose to love you in my heart, for you are beautiful to me, I love everything about you...your gentleness, your kindness, your long suffering, forgiveness and patience for me, the list goes on and on...Oh to worship you in your beautiful glory, in the beauty of holiness. Oh to behold you...how my soul is transformed into your image as I worship you...Oh to be as you are my Lord and my King. To be like you, to be called your son is the greatest gift and reward of love...to have your beautiful Holy Spirit in my soul changing me into your image. I have no King but Jesus!

My heart is tender and contrite...melted within me by the holy fire of God's love, as wax before the Flame. Oh how I love and extol the living God of heaven!! Oh how truly pleased I am with Him!!

With deepest humility I want to state how grateful I am that the Lord has saved me, and washed me from my sins, and that my name is written down in heaven!

With humility of spirit, meekness, unpretentiousness and modesty, I gladly accept your calling on my life oh love of my soul...with the joy and communion of the Holy Spirit.

Your word, your pure and holy word burns within me with indescribable and unquenchable fire and zeal; I love, worship and extol you oh living God of heaven...beyond all else in this life.

My own experience with Him (infilling of the Holy Ghost) led me into beautiful worship of Him. His presence is HOLY not carnal.

~~~~

The problem in using the word "drunkenness" in reference to the Holy Ghost, is the word drunkenness conjures up certain expectations in the carnal, especially to the unlearned and those that don't know any better.

Look at the definition:

Drunken Revelry
Also found in: Encyclopedia, Wikipedia, Hutchinson 0.01 sec.
Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. drunken revelry - a wild gathering involving excessive drinking and promiscuity.
debauch, debauchery, bacchanalia, saturnalia, bacchanal, orgy, riot
revel, revelry - unrestrained merrymaking
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.

source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drunken+revelry

~~~

Have you ever gone into a church service, and some people were misbehaving jumping on their chairs and were howling like a pack of dogs or roaring like lions? Where is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in this? I heard some story that a woman brought her husband into the sanctuary with a dog collar and leash on him, and I understand that this is common with some so called revivals. This is NOT the Holy Ghost that I have come to know.

I know, as many do, what it is to be overshadowed by the Holy Ghost; I personally know, as many here do, the Shekinah Glory of God. He helps me in my weakness; He comforts me when I am downcast - when my trials and tribulations get me down. He is there to correct me when I fail and fall, and He is there when I do well to praise me. When I have no strength, He is my strength; He is my refuge, my comforter, the rock of my salvation and my strong habitation. He (God) is the love of my life. He leads me in the paths of righteousness and holiness for His names sake. He changes me from carnal into the image of Jesus Christ.

And of my Lord Jesus - My mind is continually upon Him...His anointing remains with me. I feel His Spirit continually drawing me...and my heart is tender and loves Him above anything else in this world. It is hard to put such things into words because these things are Spirit. I love Him in my very soul; in the very center of my being...I cannot explain it. I extol Him above all things as standing before Him. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, changing me into the image of Jesus Christ - the new man.

Ephesians 5

Walk in Love

1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.


Walk in Light


8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:


“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”








_________________
David

 2010/12/10 8:30Profile
MyVeryHeart
Member



Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re:

Bretheren,

I used to be a drunkard and the Presence of the Holy Spirit is like the exact opposite of the presence of alcohol. I believe I used to use so many drugs in order to replace what I had lost in the fall, the presence of God. Praise the Lord! He has made a way through the veil into his presence by the eternal sacrifice of his shed blood on the cross. Thank you Jesus.

Love,

Travis


_________________
Travis

 2010/12/10 8:43Profile
Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
by sonsigns on 2010/12/8 19:09:00

Very good.

you said in your post "Why would anyone EVER want to refer to the beautiful anointing of the Holy Spirit of God as "Getting Drunk"?

here is your answer- Look in Acts chapter 2 verse 13.

Spiritual things have to be compared to natural things. To natural man they appeared to be drunk. So, some ministers say drunk in the spirit instead of being filled.



But Peter defended the Holy Ghost by saying:

For these [are not drunk], as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

Please read the rest of it: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202:14-21&version=NKJV

So if the Apostle Peter was NOT willing to refer the Holy Ghost as drunkenness, then why should any minister?


It just seems to me that a worldliness has crept into some of the church. I have heard some very coarse jesting coming from some of these so called "Apostles" of today ...a carnal worldliness and a type of Christianity that I want nothing to do with.



_________________
David

 2010/12/10 9:19Profile
sonsigns
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 200
Brumley Missouri

 Re: drunkeness...

Earendel, you have made a very good case against using the word drunkeness as to refering the Holy Ghost. Although I don't use this word many do.


_________________
William Cato

 2010/12/10 9:26Profile





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